Ephesians 4
AI-GENERATED SUMMARY
This sermon concludes the sub-series on church unity by establishing that the purpose of the gifts Christ gave to the church is service or ministry1,6. Tuuri argues that the church is a “functional, not a terminal institution,” meant to equip believers to serve God in every area of life rather than being an end in itself1. He explains that special offices like apostles, prophets, and pastors are given not to do the work for the congregation, but to perfect (equip) the saints so they can perform the work of the ministry6. Practically, this means every member has a ministry to perform, whether in the institutional church or in their daily vocations, and must be diligent in study and service7.
SERMON TRANSCRIPT
# Sermon Transcript – Reformation Covenant Church
We script our studies through the confessional statement and covenant statement of Reformation Covenant Church. And we continue this morning looking at Ephesians 4 for our central topics in terms of the covenant statement. We’ve been talking about Ephesians 4 for the last couple of months. Speaking about the foundation of our unity, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, the fact that we have unity in the church.
It’s not something that we have to attain. We start off with unity. We endeavor to keep the unity that God has provided through the blood of his Son, Jesus Christ. The peace that he’s provided through that blood. We’ve talked about the ethic of unity, humility, meekness, longsuffering, patience toward one another here in the church. And we’ve stressed those things as being necessary as fleshing out the orthodoxy, as it were, with orthopraxy—correct thinking and understanding of the word of God, and then correct application or obedience to God’s word.
And those things are extremely necessary. And this morning, we’re going to talk about the purpose of the unity of the church. This is all under the single statement of our covenant statement of our church that says that we’re to endeavor to support the confession of faith in this church. This morning I have basically three points to talk about in terms of the purpose of the unity. First of all, we want to note that this passage teaches us clearly that all members of the body are gifted.
Secondly, that all members of the body are ministers and third that all of our life is a ministry that God has given us. All are gifted, all are ministers, all of our life is a ministry.
Now, this passage starts off in verses 7-10. I’ll read those verses now. “But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.”
Verse 7 says that unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Now, this is important. We’ve been speaking about the unity of the church. We’ve been stressing the unity of the body, the oneness as it were in terms of our coming together or the convocation that God has called together in this church.
We’ve been stressing the one, as it were. And now Paul, after talking about the fact that we have one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father, Paul now says that in the midst of that unity, every individual component who comprises that unity that Christ has created in his church has been gifted. So we move to the particular elements that comprise the unity and we see there that every one of the individual elements has been given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Now we know that the scriptures teach us quite clearly that we all have been given the Holy Spirit on the basis of Christ’s ascension and resurrection and his glorification. In 1 Corinthians 15:45, it says that the first man, Adam, was a living soul and the last man, Adam, was a quickening spirit. Talking about Jesus Christ. In Romans 5, we read that the love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost, which is given unto us.
So, we know that everyone addressed in those epistles, all the elect of God, had the love of God shed abroad in our hearts through the gift of the Holy Spirit. And so we know from many verses in scripture that on the basis of Christ’s finished work, we’ve been given the gift of the Holy Spirit who places us into the body of Christ and then comes upon us in terms of our walk in that body. And that’s kind of a general gift, as it were, to all believers.
And there’s no differentiation there in terms of measure. But this scripture that we’re talking about this morning talks about a specific gifting in terms of the gift of the Holy Spirit. It says that we’re given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Varying measurements. So this isn’t really talking about the general gift of the Holy Spirit given to all believers, but rather the specific gifting that he has given to us for specific functions.
Now in 1 Corinthians 12:7, we read pretty much the same thing. We’re told there that the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man. The manifestation of the Spirit. Okay. So the gifts that God gives us are manifestations of the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12 goes on then to talk about the various parts of the body talking about the various gifts that God has given to his church as parts of the body of Christ.
And he says, you know, we’re not—we don’t all have the same gifting, as it were, in that sense. We have different functions. We have different gifts for different services. And so there’s a differing measure of gifting, as it were, in terms of the specific enablement that God has given us to work in the body of Christ. The same way—as I say, it talks about the body has different functioning parts of it. In the same way the body of Christ has different services or functions that people perform in that body.
And so they have a gifting according to the measure of the gift of Christ given to each one to fulfill that service. Now the implications of that are that if you’re part of the body of Christ then you’re a member. You’re a part of it. If you’re part of the whole body then you’re an individual part in it with a specific function. Okay? And so if you’re part of the elect of Jesus Christ, then you have a specific gift that God has given to you, a specific enabling or gift of the Holy Spirit in terms of function.
Now the other side of that, the other implication of that is that if you have that kind of gift of the Holy Spirit for particular ministry, then you’re part of a body in which you’re to be exercising it. Isn’t that also true? Another clear implication: if you’re a part then you’re part of the body. If you’re a part of the body, then you’re a functioning part or unit within the body. Those things are both taught in this passage.
Now, it’s interesting that verse 8 tells us of the basis for these gifts that Christ has given to us. And it says that “Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men.” Okay? So, the basis of the gifts that he gives to man is ascending up on high and leading captivity captive. Well, that’s very victorious language. And I’d be real remiss if I didn’t pause there and talk about the basis for that because it’s going to help us to understand the purpose of each of those gifts that God has given to his church.
We can’t understand the purpose of those gifts and the purpose of the unity without understanding the basis for him giving those gifts to the church. Now, the phrase that he led captivity captive, the same phrase basically is found in Judges 5:12. And you remember when Reverend Jones was here several months ago, he talked about the song of Deborah. And in that song, it says, “Arise, O Deborah, arise, O Barak, and lead captive thy captives.”—lead captivity captive, as it were.
And what it’s talking about is those people that came upon the nation of Israel to subdue them, to make them captive, had the tables turned on them, as it were, and they leave those captives, those capturers, as it were, captive themselves. And Barak and Deborah captured those who would capture them. And that’s what it’s talking about here in terms of Jesus Christ. Those who would capture, those who would defeat the purposes of Christ, he has made captive now himself.
So the very forces that sought to defeat Christ and his work on the cross and his ministry and his resurrection, those are the ones that Jesus Christ has triumphed over. Now in discussing this passage I draw parallel between Colossians 2:15. And I think it’s certainly appropriate to look at Colossians 2:15 in this light to understand what’s being said here. In Colossians 2:15, speaking of the ministry of Christ, his resurrection, it says that “having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”
Now, “spoiled” apparently has the connotation of stripping off something that would attempt to impede your progress—stripping off from oneself for the purpose of your own advancement. Okay. And the implication here is that all those principalities and powers which we know were spiritual powers and demonic powers that attempted to interfere with Christ, attempted to subvert what he was attempting to do in terms of his resurrection and his ascension and therefore his victory over sin and death.
All those forces, as it were, attempted to impede his progress. And so he now has led forth those captives, as it were, captive. He triumphed over them through his death and through his resurrection. And in his resurrection, he demonstrates that triumph over all the principalities and powers of the world. Not only does he triumph over them, not only does he strip them off from himself to use for his own purposes, but it says that He actually made a show of them openly triumphing over them in Colossians 2:15.
Now, the word “triumphing” was used in the Roman world, in the Greek that we’re talking about here at the time of a person returning from war. And I suppose all of you have heard this, but it’s important to keep this image in mind of the ascension of Jesus Christ and the implications that has for our gifting and for our service. What it talks about in terms of Christ triumphing over all these principalities and powers is the same as when a Roman war hero would come back from the war victorious and all those people that he would have fought and defeated would be part of his train. He would have them in chains and he would be leading them forth captive and he would be making a show of the fact that he has triumphed over these entities. He’s the head, they’re the tail, okay? He’s the Lord, they’re the vassals now, and that’s what it says about Jesus Christ in his resurrection.
Now it’s important to recognize we’re talking about the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the first coming, his death, and then his resurrection. That’s what it’s talking about here. And it says that in that resurrection, he triumphed over all principalities and powers, making an open show of them, leading them forth captive.
Hebrews 2:14 and 15 tells us that “for as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same that through death, he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is the devil.” Here again, we’re told that Jesus Christ in his first coming, in the ministry of his first coming, in his death, and by implication, his resurrection, his victorious resurrection, has triumphed over the devil, destroying the devil as it were in terms of his influence or his effect, his ability to control the affairs of earth. And he goes on to say in verse 15, “And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetimes subject to bondage.”
So that these verses that we’re talking about this morning in terms of the gifting that Christ has given to the church being based, as it were, upon his leading captivity captive and giving gifts to men teaches us that it’s the victory of Jesus Christ that is the basis for the gifts he gives to us. And it has to do with his purposes in terms of showing his triumphal victory over all principalities and powers.
The image that you should have in your mind then is of a victorious conqueror who having conquered all things then in part as a show of his power and the authority that he has gained, now showers gifts upon those who are his friends and gives gifts to man. That’s what it’s talking about there. So we have a victorious triumphant king who uses his power now—the substance of his power and the manifestation of that power and all the things that he has won to himself.
Now showering that power, as it were, showering those gifts that he has won for himself that he has been given by the Father, as it were, on the basis of his work, he now turns around and gives gifts to men, showering the gifts upon those who are his followers and his elect.
Now this passage is a direct quotation from Psalm 68 and it says there that he received gifts for men. And we have to keep in mind there that Jesus Christ as the Son received gifts that he gives to us from the Father, and on that basis he then distributes them to us. He receives those gifts for his victorious work, for his obedience to the point of death, and for his resurrection. He receives the gifts and he turns around and gifts us then on the basis of that. And you see here then that the basis for these gifts is the fact that—and Paul brings this out very clearly, even though Psalm 68 does not bring out this implication—that if Christ ascended, it meant he had to descend as well.
He descended, and it talks about how he descended into the lower parts of the earth. Now I think that just means his coming to earth, as it were, in terms of his earthly ministry. So we see there that Christ descends. He does his work. He does it well. He does it as an obedient servant. He fulfills all the work that his Father has given him to do and that makes satisfaction for all sins. The Father, in demonstrating the acceptability of that work, resurrects the Son, and in that resurrection we see the triumph of Jesus Christ.
And on the basis of his resurrection, then he tells us that he gives the Holy Spirit to men. The descent of the Holy Spirit accompanies, as it were, the ascent of the Son. And the gift of the Holy Spirit then comes upon his people in terms of their filling and also in terms of their specific enablement to do specific functions within the body of Christ. So what you see then that’s really the basis for the gifts that he gives to man is his victory, his finished work, and the demonstration of that work in his victory over all principalities and powers.
Now, it’s interesting that later on in this passage, we’re going to talk about specific gifts. We won’t really get into the offices that he talks about there, but one of the offices is that of evangelist. And I was thinking about this all week. You know, I’ve always believed—I’m probably getting a little ahead of myself here—but I’ve always believed that in terms of evangelism, evangelists probably should be people who teach other people or assist other people in evangelizing, as opposed to our idea of evangelist today, which is that some guy apart from a church normally goes around the world, great masses of people come to him, and that’s an evangelist. I don’t think that’s what it is. I think an evangelist is one who teaches people within the context of the church.
I’m getting ahead of myself, but the point I want to make is this: that when we speak about evangelism itself, I hope that in this church we’ve come over the last couple of years, if you’ve been here that long, to rethink what that means. Evangelism, and we talk about the gospel of Jesus Christ being his death, burial, and resurrection, right? And we kind of leave it at that. But isn’t that what this is talking about—the basis for the gifts: his descent, his resurrection, his ascent. On the basis of that giving gifts to men, that’s what it’s saying. The life and the ministry of Jesus Christ and his first coming is the basis for those gifts that he gives to the church. And the context of all that is victory. It’s not a defeatist gospel. And hopefully, if you’ve been here any length of time, you’ll come to see that this is clearly taught in so many scriptures, and it’s not something you have to necessarily go out and look for it. It just, you know, flares up at you at every point in which you study the scriptures, and it certainly comes up in this morning’s consideration.
In that light, it might also be helpful to point out, of course, that it’s not as if things were out of God’s control before Christ’s earthly ministry. Things are always a result of the providence of God. And when I got hung up in traffic this morning going back to get the bulletins, that was the providence of God at work. And we must accept those things as we spoke about last week patiently and forbearingly. But what it does say is that Jesus Christ with his first coming, with his descent and his ascent, and then the descent of the Holy Spirit in terms of gifting creates and manifests, as it were, his messianic kingdom, his visible reign, as it were, in all the earth, and he brings things more to their own fulfillment from—I’m getting ahead of myself. But in any case, the basis for these gifts is his descent and his ascent.
Now verses 9 and 10 read, “Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.” Okay. The purpose then of all this and the purpose of the gifting, and that’s the context of the unity we’re talking about this morning, is given us right here: that he might fill all things.
Now “fill” there has the idea of making fuller, bringing to fulfillment. Okay. And the fact that Christ does all these things and he might fill all things means that the purpose of all this that he’s accomplished is that all the world might manifest the fullness of his kingdom. That’s what it’s talking about here, and that’s the basis for the gifts. And the basis of that is his victorious resurrection. Jesus Christ’s purpose for giving those gifts is that we might have godly government according to the messianic reign of Jesus Christ in all the world and in all of his power. He came to fill all things, to put his government in force, as it were, to put that reign of his messianic kingdom in force.
Now the gifts therefore are not something that we get and maybe sometimes we have gifts we receive and we just go, you know, put them on a shelf and keep them special, you know, and they’re not really for usefulness. They’re just for aesthetic considerations. But if we understand the basis for the giving of these gifts and the purpose—that he might fill all things—then we recognize that those gifts then lead forth into service. They’re not gifts to be non-used. They’re gifts to be used. And that leads us to our second point: that all of God’s people are gifted and they are all ministers.
This passage—well, read verses 11 and 12: “He gave some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.” These verses are frequently spoken about in terms of teaching the special offices of the church. And I’m sure we’ll probably refer to these verses in a few months when we go through all the offices of the Old Testament and build a consideration for the New Testament offices. But, you know, I think that it’s a little bit askew here to center on those special offices. The whole context of this in all of Ephesians 4 is the work of the ministry and the unity we have and the equality we have, as it were, in terms of our receiving of the Holy Spirit and how we’re all equal in terms that we all have a part or function in the body.
Now, they’re differing functions, but we each are a part of that body. And it would be incorrect then to emphasize the individual functions of these offices, even though it’s certainly proper to preach from that and to talk about the implications of that for offices today. But the point I’m trying to bring out is that verse 11 talks about those some special gifts and how some commentators would even restrict all the gifts to these offices, which I think is just a complete misunderstanding of the text.
The gifts are that we all receive gifts. But in any event, these also are gifts to the church, as it were, in terms of these offices. But what’s the purpose of them? Verse 12: “for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.” Now, you have to recognize there when it says “perfecting” that that word means preparation for service. Preparation for ministry.
The point of those special offices is to prepare the people of God for ministry and service. And the next conjunction says “for the work of the ministry” and that refers not to the work of the special gifted offices but to the people that have been prepared for service. You see what I’m saying? What would understand that text, and most translations that you have outside of the King James probably shows that more clearly, is that the purpose of those offices is to prepare people for service, for the work of service. Okay. So in a redundant, as it were, stressing of the idea of the individual service of each member, God reinforces by two witnesses here the fact that the purpose of those special offices are to enable the people of God for their specific gift or ministry or service in the church.
So we see from these things quite clearly that he’s given gifts to all men and all men then are ministers under him. He has told us through double witness there that he wants us to understand that we’re all ministers. And the word “ministry” there—for the work of the ministry—is “diaconia,” or the same word is the basis for “deacon” or “diaconate.” And so we see there that when you talk about deacons in the church, you’re not talking about just special offices, although there is that in the church. And again, we’re going to talk about that in a couple of months. But what it says is that all people in the church are to be deacons in the sense that they’re all to be servants, and they’re all to be ministering in the context of that body. Okay? What it’s talking about here is an every-believer ministry, as the way some people have phrased it. That’s extremely important to get that point.
Now, that really shouldn’t surprise us either in this church because most of us have been exposed to the teaching and the understanding of the scriptures we use. The term “elder” is another office, a special office of the church. And that term also is a familiar term. After all, we’re all to be elders in our own households, aren’t we? And we have a special office in the church, but that doesn’t deny the fact that all men are to be elders in their own families. And the fact that we have special deacons, as it were, in churches—a special office of deacon, which is appropriate and good and proper—doesn’t deny the fact that all people are to be deacons in another sense, serving and ministering within the context of the church.
So both of those special offices don’t deny the individual responsibilities and gifting of everybody in the church. We’re to have an every-believer ministry. And that’s the purpose of evangelists. And that’s why I talked about the fact that evangelists should assist people in understanding how to share their faith with others. That’s the purpose of the pastors and teachers. That’s the purpose of all these gifts: to prepare people for the work of service.
Now, as I said, this really shouldn’t surprise us. We’ve talked about how the Levites in the Old Testament—what was their function? Their function was to assist people through studying the word of God and teaching people how to apply it to every calling that they’ve been called to in the covenant community. Levites, we talked about it kind of like the social glue that provided the glue for all the community functioning one-mindedly.
We talked about that a few weeks ago, having one purpose to apply God’s instructions for our life in everything that we do. And that’s the purpose of these special offices as well: to enable people to do that. And in 2 Timothy 2:15, we read a commonly quoted verse: “Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” And we’ve stressed in this church the importance of study. And we’ve tried to stress the importance of the prioritization of our lives around seeking first God’s kingdom and studying the scriptures and understanding their application to all of our life. And if you’re too busy to study the Bible, you’re too busy period.
But the part of that is that you’re supposed to study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman. Your study isn’t simply for intellectual attainment. It’s that you would be a workman in the context of the church and of your family. Okay? So God reinforced to us the idea we’ve been called to service. And we’ve all been called to do that.
We quoted 1 Corinthians 12:7 earlier. The fact that manifestations of the Spirit have been given to each of us—it’s given to every man. He goes on to say, “for the profit of all.” In other words, for the profit of everybody in the church. Again, the manifestation of the Spirit is given to us to the end that we would use it in service and in ministering and deaconing, as it were, in the context of the entire church. That’s the purpose that God has given us gifts for: to be used in the context of the church.
Now, this has great implications for us. And a real immediate application this week, for instance, is the fact that Friday night we’re going to have a mailing and we’re going to send out flyers about Greg Bahnsen coming. And it’s important that as many people as possible can come out to that. Don’t think that it’s somebody else’s job necessarily. It is everybody’s job. Nobody’s assigned to do that. You’re to be a minister here in this church and a servant in this church assisting the work of the church. And that means that normally you should try to, when on these special occasions when we need help in a particular way—okay—come out to those things. And I’m real pleased that most people in this church do. The point I’m trying to make is that we’re all to be ministers. The point of special offices is to assist us in preparing for those individual ministries that we have here within the church.
There’s another implication to this, and that is that as a church grows, you’ll probably get busier. Specifically, what I’m talking about is that there’s been some talk for the last six months or so about the possibility of me going part-time. I don’t know if that’s going to happen or not, but here’s the point I want you to get this morning out of these scriptures. What God clearly tells us: If that’s true, if we add elders—and we’ll certainly do that here in the next six months or so—if we put on more people in terms of staff, if I go part-time, for instance, that doesn’t mean that we add those people so that they can do the work so that we can kick back.
It means just the reverse. It means that if you’re supporting Levitical offices in the church, what they’re going to do is they’re going to help you to apply the faith in your life and they’re going to assist you in serving. And to that end, if it—what the implication of that is—if you do have Levitical staff, as it were, elders whose purpose is to perfect the saints for the work of the ministry, then that means you’re going to get even busier. And I hope that—I’d love to in the future have more time to spend individually with people in the church or in small groups talking about the implications of the scriptures in terms of business, going through some of those Tom Rose books for instance, and helping people to apply those things in their business calling, your vocational calling in terms of business, many other things. But the point I’m trying to get at is that those people are to perfect you for the work of the ministry.
And it’s not as if you’re going to get somebody in to do all the work. You’re going to get somebody in to train you to do the work so that the work of the kingdom would go on. The gifts that we have—another implication of this general implication—is that we’re supposed to have involvement in our local church. The whole context of this is the body, the church of Jesus Christ. And we know that’s manifested in local churches.
Spurgeon and his followers from the Puritans speak about the fact that the Egyptians in their hieroglyphics expressed the unprofitableness of a solitary man by a single millstone which, being alone, grinds no meal, but with its fellow, is exceedingly profitable for that purpose. That’s a real good symbol to keep in our minds—a picture to keep in our minds—that we don’t—we’re not given the gifts to exercise individually apart from our connection with the body of Christ.
A single millstone can do no work unless it’s in conjunction with another millstone. It’s well fitted. It has great gifts, as it were. It has great capabilities, but it can’t do a darn thing unless it’s hooked up with the other side of the millstone. Now, maybe in the next week or two when we talk about marriage and the fact that you shouldn’t marry outside the covenant, we’ll talk about that as well. It has some implications for marriage, I suppose. But the specific implication this morning is in terms of our gifting being exercised in the context of the body.
I thought it was interesting a few weeks ago. I was listening to Rushdoony speak on the fruits of the Spirit, and in Galatians 5:20 it talks about the fruits of the flesh, as it were, the deeds of the flesh as opposed to the fruits of the Spirit. And one of the things he talks about in that context is sedition. And when he said what he said, I couldn’t hardly believe it. So I looked it up in my Vine’s, did a little more research, and he’s right. In terms of the meaning of the Greek word that’s interpreted “sedition” there, the word means a standing apart, a holding oneself aloof from other people or the work of the body. And so to be seditious, which is of course a terrible thing—and there should be, you know, there’s obviously a very bad thing and a very bad deed of the flesh, as it were—to be seditious is to stand apart from and not involve yourself in the work of the local church. That’s seditious.
And these scriptures clearly teach us that we’re gifted. We’re gifted to minister, and that ministry should also occur in the context of the local church. Our refusal to participate in the life of the church then is a grievous error. In that context also, we talked about heresies. A heretic is one who picks and chooses. And we certainly are taught to do that these days. To make a wholehearted commitment is not something we like to do. We like to see, “Oh, I kind of like what they’re doing here, and I kind of like what they’re doing here. Maybe I get involved here. But, you know, I want to stand apart from them, from this strange group of people, and the rest of these things.” That’s not the biblical way.
Heresy is to take one doctrine and to expand it and advance it at the sake of all others. Now, it’s interesting that these bad deeds—the whole point of Paul’s making in Galatians 5:20—is the people who do these things don’t inherit the kingdom. Okay? And so to be involved in the inheritance of the kingdom, to be involved in the work of the ministry, means of pitching in and helping to do that work, realizing that we’re gifted for that purpose.
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COMMUNION HOMILY
No communion homily recorded.
Q&A SESSION
# Reformation Covenant Church Q&A Session
## Pastor Dennis Tuuri
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**Q1: Questioner:**
In this passage it talks about how he descended into the lower parts of the earth and the Apostles Creed we repeat every Sunday says that Christ descended into hell. The question has to do with the correlation of those two things.
**Pastor Tuuri:**
I’ve been trying to avoid talking about that for the last three or four months because I haven’t really studied it enough to my own satisfaction yet. But I tell you the two positions basically, in terms of the Apostles Creed, most Presbyterians you’ll find agree with—for instance, Gordon Clark in his book *What Do Presbyterians Believe?* in the introduction to it, he says that he was talking to one lady once at a church meeting about how he thought that might even be best to strike that out of the Apostles Creed now since it’s so misinterpreted by people or misunderstood.
The position that most Presbyterian people that I’ve read would say is that when it says he descended into hell, the way that’s understood is that he took upon himself all the pain and suffering of hell at his death on the cross. They don’t believe that Christ actually descended into hell after his death, nor that he preached to those who were imprisoned in Sheol. They don’t believe that. They believe that once Christ died, it was finished. He said it was finished and that after during his time of his burial he didn’t go anywhere—that as soon as he died he ascended unto God.
The other position is that there are a couple of verses such as the one we have before us and others that talk about a descent into the lower parts of the earth or into Hades. In terms of your own study, Zacharias Ursinus does a real good job in rebutting that in his commentaries in the Heidelberg Catechism, which he was one of the two writers of, which uses the Apostles Creed as a major part of their catechism. Norman Jones’s commentary on the Heidelberg Catechism also deals with that and shows that’s not what we believe and that we ought to maybe change it. So I don’t know. It’s kind of a tough issue.
I think that in the context of this specific verse though, it’d be very difficult to get anything out of this about a descent into Hades, because after all it’s talking about his ascent and his descent—so it’s easy to say that he descended into earth itself and it’s not talking about post-death. His descent, I don’t think necessarily has to be about that.
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**Q2: Bob:**
I remember reading when I was in Bible college the guy who knew Greek did a study on that one verse and I think they termed that as being Christ went to the Christians who were asleep or dead.
**Pastor Tuuri:**
Right, right. The Presbyterians do not, you know, the Presbyterian scholars that I’ve read do not believe that. Absolutely not. They say it totally has to do with his sufferings on the cross. The only problem with that of course is in terms of the Apostles Creed that in a chronological sense then it’s out of order. It talks about how he died on the cross and then he descended into hell and they would say his descent into hell or taking upon himself the torments of hell precedes his dying.
So either way, if you hold the position of Clark or Rushdoony or Calvin—Calvin also thought it was foolishness to say that he did that.
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**Q3: Vic:**
What about “Every valley shall be exalted and every hill shall be made low”?
**Pastor Tuuri:**
Yeah, I think lower parts of earth might be yes—well, yeah, talking about the valley should be exalted and the hill should be made low. I’m not a Greek scholar but let me say this: I think Vos in his commentary would believe that Christ did actually physically descend into the realm of the dead and preached. I think he even says though that the Greek word doesn’t have to be understood in that sense—that it could just be understood as a simple descent to earth.
Other people say that the Greek word there just simply means in relationship, the lower parts of the earth in relationship to his exaltation in heaven. But Denny, maybe you know—it’s one thing I’ve been thinking about for the last six months or more, that specific portion of the Apostles Creed and I’ve wanted to do a communion talk on it and I just haven’t studied it out where I feel comfortable enough with my position yet. And maybe if somebody else wants to study that out for a communion talk, that’d be a good thing. We could work on it together or something.
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**Q4: Harriet:**
Wasn’t Christ separated from God?
**Pastor Tuuri:**
Yes, that’s right. And that would be basically the position of Calvin and most other people that we would read normally is that he didn’t actually descend into some sort of fiery world—that he was simply separated from God. That would be the orthodox position I think would be that he did suffer all the wrath of God on the cross at that point in terms of being forsaken by God. And again, that’s what they would say his descent into hell was.
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**Q5: Questioner:**
If Christ died and didn’t rise from the dead three days later, wouldn’t that be a double suffering?
**Pastor Tuuri:**
No, because the second ascension has to do with his bodily ascension and that his spirit was with God in the interim. I think it’s the position that they would take. I don’t want to wait for me to study it out. Let’s study it out now. I would, you know, and if any of you in your own studies come across things that you’ve come up with or other commentaries on that I’d really like to read them.
It is a seems to be a fairly major point of departure I’m finding. It seems like more of the covenant people that we would now find ourselves in concord with on a lot of things would tend to reject his descent into Hades in terms of preaching to the souls that were in prison. And I’m not sure there must be some implication of the faith that’s being worked out there in terms of basic doctrine, covenantal theology versus dispensationalist theology. And I haven’t really quite understood why those positions differ that way.
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**Q6: Tony:**
Bring it back to the first Peter passage, right?
**Pastor Tuuri:**
That’s the other passage that would be used. Well, you know, I can tell you what again what Calvin and those guys would say is that the preaching occurred through the prophets back then to those people—that it wasn’t something later. So, but I haven’t really studied that. It is another critical passage to that whole thing. On the other side, there are verses that deal well with the state—I think it’s primarily referring to his body not going through corruption, but you know there’s a lot of things you’d have to study through in that context.
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**Q7: John S.:**
In this talk you mentioned the Levite as the social group and they were inspired by God and empowered by God. In our American culture it seems oriented toward—Mystics use drugs for their glue more or less to hold together. It seems that they draw on a well—they allow a sovereign God to have an autonomous nature and allow calling the drugs. Do you think that will be for themselves up to another spirit allowing the mind to be taken over?
**Pastor Tuuri:**
Yeah, man is inescapably the image of God and he is inescapably religious and he will if he rejects the glue that God provides, he’ll seek another glue. If he rejects the spirit that God has provided and the gifts that God gives, he’ll seek other gifts and other ways to fulfill his life. You know, Adam, as we said during the talk, you know, in terms of his being a king under God, didn’t reject kingship. He served under Satan instead of serving under God. So, and yeah, the drug culture is an excellent example of that.
Why would there be mandatory drug testing right now? Quite against that individual. I can understand why a lot of people are really upset about people who aren’t. Yeah, it is tricky. There are some tricky issues involved though, of course. We had a discussion yesterday around table with some of Chris W.’s relatives about how in Portland a judge threw out the conviction of a drunk driver because it was unlawful search and seizure to take his breath in terms of the analysis.
Well, the reasoning is a little facetious. But on the other hand, do we want a state where the civil magistrate can at will pull over every driver going down the street and check them for drunk driving? And what’s the difference between that and saying that we have a lot of drugs being used? Let’s search every house and see if there’s any drugs in it.
There are some fundamental principles here that people don’t normally think of anymore. And it’s very easy being driven by a conservative moralism to end up throwing away many of the protections—or the rights is a bad word—many of the biblical laws that protect godly society from an encroaching civil government. So they’re tricky issues and that’s why we have to study to show ourselves approved, so we can want to be the pro-voice as it were in terms of the public life of people in terms of proclaiming the standard of God’s truth for the civil magistrate.
And we can’t do that unless we understand the scriptures. And that’s why I say the Levites provided that people. They help people to study through the scriptures and applied in those specific areas. There’s continuity there. I also meant to point out in the context of the talk that there’s some discontinuity as well of course from the old covenant to the new covenant. One of the great things about the new covenant is we’ve been given the gift of the Holy Spirit indwelling us now and there’s enablement that comes from Christ having actually ascended now instead of just looking forward to it in the Old Testament. That comes upon us for the work that we’re to do so that it’ll be effectual—the preaching of the gospel.
So if anything, if we understand that the Old Testament saints were gifted and servants and everything that they did and God called the people out of Egypt to be a nation of priests and prophets before him. If anything, we’re even more prophets, priests, and kings before God in Jesus Christ. And we have to be diligent in doing that, each one of us.
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**Q8: Questioner:**
This is about someone else, but I was wondering if anybody has contacted the last issue of the newsletter about those endorphins, the Covenant people, and reconstruct?
**Pastor Tuuri:**
I haven’t right. Dale Duba’s group—so in light of what we said this morning you should contact him this week and come back and share that with us.
I wanted to announce also that Mary Pride and her husband will be having a seminar—fortunately the week after our seminar with Dr. Bahnsen, November 7th and 8th at Good Shepherd Community Church, put on by Greg Harris and Christian Life Workshops. It’s like a Friday evening and an all day Saturday and it’s $30 a couple on Saturday and then $10 per child if you want to take your children along with you. Also, I have a couple extra flyers on that if anybody’s interested.
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*We’ll have a time during communion for sharing prayer requests. Let’s go on downstairs and meet everyone.*
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