Numbers 10:1-4; Deuteronomy 29:10; Exodus 19:7-8
AI-GENERATED SUMMARY
Tuuri argues that the “congregation” (Edah) in the Old Testament was not a direct democracy of millions but a representative body of elected officials, functioning like a House of Representatives alongside the Nasi (Senate)5,10. He uses Numbers 10 and the “two trumpets” to demonstrate how these distinct bodies were summoned for government and war5. The sermon posits that the Hebrew Republic was a “bottom-up” system of federalism based on families, elders, and elected representatives, which served as the model for the American Constitution2,11. Tuuri asserts that biblical government requires virtuous citizens to elect leaders who are “willing to serve” and warns against the tyranny of “top-down” systems3,11. Practical application involves the church “blowing the trumpet” to sound the alarm against oppression and men engaging in political leadership3,4.
SERMON TRANSCRIPT
# SERMON TRANSCRIPT
## Numbers 10:1-4
Here is Numbers 10, the 10th chapter, verses 1-4. Numbers 10:1-4, the 10th chapter of Numbers:
“And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee two trumpets of silver, of a whole piece shalt thou make them, that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes which are heads of the thousands of Israel shall gather themselves unto thee.”
Let’s pray. Almighty God, we thank you for yourself. We thank you, Father, for the gift of your word. And we thank you, Lord God, that because of the shed blood of Jesus Christ, we can go to that word by the power of the Holy Spirit, understanding it that we might obey it. Help us, Father, to understand these scriptures now this morning. In Jesus’ name we pray. Amen.
We’ve already had several references this morning to the government of Jesus Christ. I hope you noticed in that Acts passage where Jason was one of the believers and the result of their believing was they turned the world upside down. Why? Because they served another king besides Caesar, a king—Jesus Christ—who claimed to be king over Caesar, over all earthly kings.
And we just sang in a song about how God gives us dominion on earth. We’re to understand our dominion as being under the dominion of Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And so we have to understand what that means to us.
We’ve been, over the last couple of months here, looking at the government of Jesus Christ and the Old Covenant community—the government of the covenant keeper to come, Yahweh—and then we will make application as we go along in this series to the government of the church and also the civil society we live in.
It’s important we recognize that we frequently make references in this church to the kingdom of God, the kingship of Jesus Christ, and his crown rights. It’s important that if we’re going to be obedient to those crown rights, we understand the implications of those things for our church and for our civil government. And so we go to the Old Testament to get the basis for what God has done in the new covenant people.
This passage of scripture we read this morning is the same passage of scripture we read last week, and I told you last week we’d be talking about it again this week. The passage has to do with the assembling of the people in two groups. They had two trumpets made. If they blew one trumpet, the nasi—or what the King James version refers to as princes—of the congregation would assemble.
We said last week that really they’re not princes, not nobility in that sense. They’re presiding officers or presidents of the tribes. Specifically, in the case here in Numbers, we looked at Numbers 1 and saw that each tribe had a president, as it were, a head—a nasi—a chieftain, a ruler. But if two trumpets are blown, then the whole congregation is to assemble at the door of the meeting place.
And so this morning we want to talk about what is that second group of people? What is the congregation that assembled there? And I suppose that when you just glance at these scriptures and other scriptures that refer to the congregation, you may first believe that it’s all the people who get together. Of course, you’ve got a problem with that because at this time in the wilderness, we know from the census that there is over 600,000 fighting men.
On the basis of that, and the size of the families, we have good reason to believe there were probably right around 2.5 million people in the entire congregation. And it’s hard to believe that 2.5 million people would assemble at the doorway of the meeting place when they blow the second trumpet. It’s possible, I suppose, but I think that there are other explanations given to us in scripture. And we’ll be looking at some scriptures this morning indicating the representative nature of the congregation and its assemblies, and also the representative nature of other factors of God’s government as well.
The fact of representation in terms of the covenant with God is not a new thing to people in this church. We have heads of households come up and sign the church covenant, for instance, representing the entire family. And we have good reason to do that. In Deuteronomy 29:10, Moses summons all the people to him and he summons specifically the heads of the tribes, the elders, and the officers of the people.
And he then calls them to the obedience of God’s commands. And it says there that in this covenant taking that goes on in Deuteronomy 29, that all the men of Israel went into covenant with Jehovah God. And yet we know that Moses specifically had summoned the heads, the captains, as it were, of the various groups of the tribes—the elders and the officers. And we know that not every man was there.
But they represented, as it were, all the people underneath them. And so even though there were officers who said yes to God at the assembled group there, yet the scriptures tell us that all the people of Israel spoke through those elected representatives.
Again, in Exodus 19, prior to the establishment of some of these governmental officers we’ve been looking at, in Exodus 19:7-8, Moses calls the elders to meet with God with him. And God then instructs the elders in the laws for his people. And it says there that all the people again answered, “Whatever God commands us to do, we’ll do it to the best of our ability.” And so we see there again the elders representing the entire congregation.
The idea of representation is throughout the scriptures. And we want to look at it now in terms of the specific word that’s translated here as assembly. Its normal translation in the King James version is congregation. There are two common words used in the Hebrew to designate the assembly or the congregation of the people of God. And for those you are interested: one of them is edah, and the other is kahal. These are really fairly synonymous—most commentators believe—and so we won’t make differentiations in terms of them this morning.
I should note, however, that Bahnsen in his book Scripture Doctrine of the Church does make a distinction between these two terms, although not a distinction that would affect what we’re going to say this morning. But he does quote extensively from a commentator known as Vitringa who did some fairly heavy word studies on these Hebrew words, and there is some differentiation that he makes. But for the point of what we’re going to be discussing this morning, they’re basically synonymous, and there are certainly passages in the scriptures that show they’re synonymous.
It is interesting, however, that the Septuagint translates these two words. The word for congregation or assembly in the Hebrew—the word we have this morning for assembly—they normally translate as synagogue, and the kahal they normally translate as ecclesia. And so you can see there the two terms applied to the New Testament church: ecclesia—the gathering of the people, or the synagogue—the assembly or the congregation.
And again, those are somewhat synonymous, although there may be technical differences between the two terms. Certainly, we know that the scriptures tell us that we are both. We are an ecclesia, a called-out people gathered together to God, but we’re also a synagogue. If you remember correctly, the root word of synagogue—to call or to appoint, call to an appointed place—basically is what that means.
And remember, we talked about in Hebrews 10:25. In Hebrews 10, we talked about the necessity of attendance at Sabbath services—Sunday church. We spoke about the fact that in that specific reference, we’re called an “epi-synagogue” in the Greek word used there. And so we know that the congregation of God’s people, the church, is a synagogue. In fact, it’s a super synagogue because it’s a new covenant synagogue, not like an old covenant synagogue.
We stand on this side of the coming of the covenant mediator, Jesus Christ. We’re now a super synagogue unto God. And God has an appointment. He’s appointed us a place to meet. And for this congregation, that place is here, and the time is Sunday morning at 10:00. God keeps his appointments, and he expects us to keep that appointment as well.
That’s the basic group meaning of the word congregation. Now, in the sense that we’re going to use it this morning, however, while it can refer to the entire congregation, yet there are also passages of scripture where it obviously means a representative group. I believe the scripture we just looked at in Numbers 10 is that sort of occurrence. And we’ll just go briefly now through maybe six or seven specific instances of the use of the term congregation to indicate an assembled body—not necessarily everybody altogether.
And you’ll sort of get the drift of where we’re going with this as we go along and see what this congregation—a representative group of people—did when they got together.
**Numbers 27:1-2**
Numbers 27:1-2. And I won’t take the time to read these things, but it’s important that you write down the reference if you’re doing a study on this. Numbers 27:1-2: we have there—and we’ve talked about this a couple of weeks ago—the daughters of Zelophehad, who had no male ancestors left in the line to have an inheritance in the land that they were going to go into. And so the daughters were concerned that they would lose the inheritance of their land. They wouldn’t have any place to go. They’d be swallowed up by another tribe.
And they then come to the officials of Israel in the wilderness to say, “We have a problem here. What are we going to do about it?” And it’s interesting who they come to. They come to Moses, to Eleazar, the high priest who was also there at the time, and to the leaders of the people—that’s the nasi, the presiding officers that we talked about last week. And I’ll probably, during some of this talk this morning, make correlations between them and a senate, where we’re familiar in this country with the term senate—a group of people who are a smaller group in number than the house of representatives.
But anyway, we’ll use that term senate for the nasi. We’ll get more details on that in a couple of minutes. So they came to Moses, to Eleazar, to the nasi, and to the congregation. And so when the daughters of Zelophehad made their plea for the continuance of their land in their line—even though there were no male heirs—they made it to this group.
So we’re talking about an officially convened group of people here to hear a dispute that had arisen over the inheritance of these people. Now, we know the nasi, or the senate, or the presiding officers, had specific jurisdiction over inheritance. We talked about that last week. It was their duty to apportion the land amongst the census people that had been taken in Numbers 1.
But we know also that in correlation to this is the congregation. Now, it’s hard to believe that the daughters of Zelophehad took their query about what to do about this situation to all 2.5 million people together. We don’t believe that’s what happened. We believe they went to an assembled group of people representing the whole congregation, but a different group than the nasi, or the senate, or the princes of the people.
Now, as to how that was resolved: actually, neither the nasi, nor the congregation, nor Moses knew what to do about it, and they took it to the oracle. They took it to God, and he gave them instructions. The important point to remember there is that there’s an assembled group of people—an official representative body—to which a problem dealing with inheritance in the land was taken.
**Numbers 35 and Criminal Matters**
Second occurrence is in Numbers 35. And these are just representative occurrences, by the way. We’re not going to go through all of them. There are many of them. We’ll just give some representative ones. As representative occurrences of the involvement of the congregation in judicial and criminal matters, you can look at Numbers 35:24.
Numbers 35 talks about the cities of refuge. And you remember that Howard gave a real good talk at communion a couple of weeks ago on the cities of refuge. And remember, if a man killed somebody, if he did it accidentally, he could go to the city of refuge to avoid being killed by the blood avenger. The blood avenger was responsible on behalf of his family to kill the man who had killed—who had murdered—a member of their family.
Numbers 35 gives distinctions as to how you can determine whether or not it was intentional murder or if it wasn’t, and whether or not the man was to be delivered to death, or if he was to be given back to the city of refuge and given refuge in that city until the death of the high priest.
And the important part about that is that in verse 12 of Numbers 35, it says that the man’s slayer is not to die until he stands before the congregation for trial. Or in other words, for judgment. So the slayer of the person has to stand before the congregation to determine whether or not he is a murderer or whether it was accidental.
If it’s unintentional, Numbers 35:24 says that if the man did it unintentionally, accidentally, and not with malice and forethought, then the congregation shall judge between the slayer and the blood avenger, and deliver the slayer from the hand of the blood avenger, and restore him to the city of refuge.
So apparently what had happened here: the man had killed somebody by accident. The blood avenger wanted to kill him. He goes to the city of refuge to take refuge. Then he comes out for a trial before the congregation to determine the basis of whether or not it was intentional or unintentional—whether or not he should be given to the blood avenger or whether he should be returned back to the city of refuge into safety.
Now, we in Deuteronomy 19:12 see the elders are also involved in this process, but they’re not synonymous with the congregation. We know that because in Deuteronomy 19:12, the elders of the city are responsible for taking the slayer and delivering him to the blood avenger. So the elders simply carry out the decision of the court or the assembly—the congregation—here in terms of this activity, if the man is found guilty of premeditated murder.
So the man who was in danger of being killed by a blood avenger goes before the congregation—the assembled people—in the representative nature here, I believe, for a trial. Again, there we know that all the people of the town didn’t come out. All the people of the tribe didn’t come out to try this man. There was definitely a select group of people representing the people. And so identified with it in terms of the use of the term congregation.
Then, if the congregation—if we refer to them as the house of representatives of that particular district—if the house of representatives found the man to be guilty of murder, he would be delivered to the elders of the city that the murdered man came from, and they would turn him over to the blood avenger. So there’s a distinction between the trial itself and the judicial decision being carried out by the elders.
The trial occurred at the congregation. A couple of other cases dealing with capital crimes:
**Numbers 15:33**
Now, in criminal matters, the congregation is involved with in Numbers 15:33. The man gathering wood on the Sabbath is brought—they bring the man to determine what to do with him before Moses and the congregation, again the assembled people. Again, we don’t think every single man was there. It was a representative group of people elected by the people to hear these cases. And the congregation then is responsible—after God’s oracle says the death penalty is what he needs—the congregation are the ones responsible for stoning him to death.
But see, when you read these passages, don’t get the idea that everybody was out there throwing stones. You’d have two and a half million stones on top of this body. That’s not what occurred. We had a representative group of people here. That’s important.
**Numbers 14**
In Numbers 14, just the chapter before Numbers 15, we see another interesting occurrence where, again, it’s very easy, I think, to misread what scriptures tell us. In Numbers 14, remember the 12 spies had been sent out into the land, and they came back. They were going to spy the land, and 10 spies gave a bad report and two spies gave a good report. The name of our bookstore came from that good report—that’s where we got that passage from for our newsletter.
We used to have as well. Well, in verse 9, the two good spies, Joshua and Caleb, they say to the people, “Don’t rebel against God.” Okay. And then in verse 10, it says the congregation bade stone them with stones. And then God intervenes and says, “No, you can’t do that.”
Now, it’s easy to think that what happened was these spies came back. Two and a half million people are gathered around and say, “Well, these guys, we don’t want to listen to them. Let’s kill them.” That’s not what happened. I think what happened, if you understand the congregation here as a house of representatives—an officially convened group of representatives of the people—was this:
The spies came back, and there was a dispute amongst the spies as to what happened. And two of the spies accused the other 10 spies of rebellion against God. They tell the people, “Don’t listen to these guys. Don’t rebel against God.” They’d accused the 10 spies of rebellion, which was a capital offense.
Now, this congregation—I think there’s reason to believe this. The congregation said, “No, we don’t believe the two. We believe the 10.” And the two therefore made a false accusation against the 10. And what’s the penalty for a false accusation? The penalty is that whatever you wanted to happen to the other person had to happen to you. That’s a real important thing, by the way, as we talk about these child abuse laws. Malicious reporting of child abuse should result in severe action against the people that report those things illegally or maliciously.
The biblical concept—which cut down on a lot of false accusations, of course—was that if you were proved to be a false accuser, you had to suffer that penalty. So the two spies are trying to get the 10 spies executed by calling them rebels. But the congregation believes the 10 spies and not the two spies for whatever reason. And then they said, “These guys are going to be executed—the two spies.”
I think that’s what’s going on there. A lawfully convened group of people making a decision about what to have done here. Now, God then intervenes. God specifically appears to Moses, and it’s obvious that everybody else knows what’s going on, and he stops that whole process.
So we have the intervention of God here. But I think that again, if you understand the congregation as a convened assembly of the representatives of the people, you see these things a little bit differently.
So the congregation had some authority in capital crimes. They had some authority in some official matters such as the avenger of blood disputes and in the inheritance. The congregation also, in Judges 21, are said to be the group that sends out 12,000 valiant men to strike Jabesh-Gilead.
**Judges 21 and Matters of War**
Later on, we’ll talk a little bit about some of the implications of this for us today. The people of Jabesh-Gilead did not go out. The confederated tribes of Israel declared holy war on one of the tribes, Benjamin, because of what they had done—with some very terrible things involving a Levite’s wife, and whatnot. But anyway, the point was they had called out a holy war against one of the tribes. And people from the town of Jabesh-Gilead refused to come up.
And so then, when everything was all over, the tribes then sent, as a congregation, now sent 12,000 men to strike Jabesh-Gilead. It was not optional to go out to war for the nation of Israel. Well, in Judges 21:10, we’re said specifically that it’s the congregation—the edah—the assembled representatives of the people—that send out those 12,000 men. Okay?
**Joshua 9:18-19 and Matters of Peace**
Matters of peace: In Joshua 9:18-19, we talked about this last week. The affair with the Gibeonites. And Joshua enters into covenant with the Gibeonites. It says that Joshua and the nasi—the princes, presiding officers, the senate, as it were—the people are the ones who make covenant with the Gibeonites.
And then it tells us in verses 18 and 19 that the congregation then murmured against the princes, or against the nasi, or the senate. And I think there again, it doesn’t mean every last person in the assembly of Israel murmured against them. It meant that an officially elected group of people here—representatives of the people—murmured against the affairs that had been entered into in terms of a peace treaty.
Now, that’s interesting too, I think, because of this. Apparently, the congregation didn’t make an official protest here. They couldn’t do anything about it. It was within the realm of responsibility for the senate, or the nasi, in conjunction with the chief magistrate, Joshua, to enter into covenant with the foreign group—with the Gibeonites—to make a peace treaty, to have foreign relations with them, if you want to look at it that way.
Now, that’s interesting to me because according to the United States Constitution, foreign affairs are given to what branch of office? They’re given to the president, but he needs the advice and consent of the Senate—not the representatives. And so this is a very similar thing going on here. We have the peace treaty being made by the head of the country—the chief official civil officer, which is Joshua—with the advice and consent of the nasi, or the senate of Israel—outside of the jurisdiction of the congregation. But the congregation isn’t happy about it, and they complain about it.
And right now, you know, we have a lot of complaining going on about how foreign relations are waged or conducted in this country. It’s important to recognize that I think we have a biblical system here where it’s a responsibility of the president, with the advice and consent of the Senate, to handle those things. And really, the House of Representatives may complain that they have no official jurisdiction in these matters.
It’s important to remember that when you see a lot of this stuff going on TV in terms of what we’re doing with Iran or other countries: it’s the responsibility of the president to conduct foreign relations with the advice and consent of the Senate. And I think that’s why I think our system was based upon this system. I think that’s why we have it that way—is because the scriptures say that’s the specific group, the nasi, the senate, who are to conduct foreign relations in accordance with the chief civil officer.
But the congregation murmured, and the nasi listened to them. They don’t just say, “You have no business in this. Cut it out.” The nasi, the senate, listens to the house of representatives here, and they say, “Well, we’ll do this. We’ll make them servants forever—of wood and doing all this work for us.” They propose a compromise. We’ve made a treaty. We can’t kill them, but we can enslave them. Okay. And so they come up with a compromise to ameliorate the concerns of the congregation.
**Heads of State**
Our fifth area in which the congregation has an official capacity: heads of state. In 1st Kings 12, after Solomon’s death, his son Rehoboam reigns. And you remember we talked about Rehoboam a few weeks ago, and we talked about the elders of the people. And while Rehoboam was the king, he didn’t listen to the older, wiser council that was available to him. Rather, he listened to the young people that he had kind of grown up with—his buddies—not the gray-hairs.
And as a result, he did a very foolish thing and turned the people of Israel against him. And that led then to the split—the division of the tribes of Israel into the 10 and the 2 tribes. What happened then was Jeroboam became the first northern king after the collapse of Solomon’s empire, and Rehoboam became the king of the south. Jeroboam becomes king of the north.
Well, the important thing to remember about that is that when Jeroboam becomes king, it says that all Israel call him to their assembly. And it’s at the assembly they make him king. And that word where he becomes king—it’s the congregation or the assembly. So what we see here is they bring a possible candidate for the kingship of the northern tribes, Jeroboam, before the assembly. And it’s the assembly then who makes him king.
Does that mean they took a vote of, you know, hundreds of thousands of people? No, I don’t believe it does. The assembly is an officially convened group of people now who have power to install a man into the office of the chief civil officer of the land. And that’s what they did.
The same thing happens in 1st Samuel 10:17-27. Now, Samuel has already been shown by God that Saul is the one—the king that they will get in response to their request for a king. But Samuel then calls all the people together in assembly. And they respond, “Long live the king.” When Samuel tells them that this is the man that God is going to have reign over you, they say, “Long live the king.”
And this is very similar to the way, for instance, the old Roman Senate used to work. The Senate would declare to the congregation—to the assembled group of people, similar to our House of Representatives: “It’s resolved that this will occur. Do you concur?” And they say, “Yes, we concur.” And now we’ve got a law. We’ve got an act passed.
And so this is the same thing that happens here. Samuel says, “Here’s Saul. He’s the king. God’s chosen the king.” But still the people have a voice. They say, “Long live the king.” They give their assent to the kingship of Saul. And the people here are represented by assembly, or by representatives rather, in a convened assembly before God and man.
The same thing happens in all kinds of other cases. Joshua and Jephthah—remember we talked about him. The elders go out, make an offer to Jephthah that he comes back to the assembly of the people, and they then make him judge over them. It happens in with Samuel himself.
Again, in 1st Chronicles 29, when David makes Solomon king. It’s interesting that in chapter 28, God tells David to make Solomon king. Solomon’s his chosen one, and David makes Solomon king. But then in 1st Chronicles 29, in the context there, he has an assembly of people—all the officers of Israel, it says all the heads of various heads of state and whatever groups were represented—which means everybody here. These people are in assembly, and it says specifically that those people met together in assembly in 1st Chronicles 29 and they say that they make Solomon the king a second time.
I better look that up because I got two references here. Let me look that up real quick so we don’t get people confused. Yeah. 1st Chronicles 29:22-23. Verse 22: “So they ate and drank that day before the Lord with great gladness.” And this is this assembly of people again—the representatives of the people. And verse 22 goes on to say, “And they made Solomon, the son of David, king a second time. And they anointed him as ruler for the Lord.” And Zadok as priest. And then Solomon sat on the throne, and he prospered, and all Israel obeyed him.
They made him king a second time. And you have that repeated pattern in the old covenant where the head of the people—the chief civil officer, being a king or a judge—is made that position first by God, appointed by God, and then the people make him the king the second time, giving their amen, as it were, to that man to rule over them.
And the people in most of these occurrences are represented by a group of people coming together as the congregation or assembly. And by the way, they probably were called together to do those things by those trumpets that God had him make in Numbers 10 that we just read about. Numbers 10 says there’ll be a perpetual reminder before the Lord. And I’m sure that’s how they convene the assemblies of both the nasi, or the senate, and then the congregation, or the house of representatives. It was they were convened by the blowing of trumpets.
So all these occurrences, it’s very likely that’s how they brought the people together.
**Consultation with the Chief Civil Officer**
Then also, they didn’t just elect people, as it were, to be their chief civil officer. They also were consulted by the chief civil officer. An example of that is in 1st Chronicles 13:2-4. It says in verse 2 that all the assembly of Israel are consulted by David. He gets all the assembly of Israel together to consult them as to what to do about the ark.
He wants to bring the ark back into the land and up to its proper place now. And he assembles the group—the congregation of the people—to consult with on that matter. And it says in verse 4 that all the assemblies said that they wanted that was a good idea and they wanted to do that and they would do that with him.
So again, you see here the head of the Hebrew republic, as it were, calling on an elected representative group of people representing the people for counsel and advice about an important religious affair. In this connection: the bringing up of the ark. And they then concur with that, and so it’s done.
**Summary of the Congregation’s Role**
So what we see then is that the congregation is a representative group of people, undoubtedly elected. Now we don’t have specific remembrances that say they’re elected to that post. But we know that in every other current we’ve looked at, these people were elected. The heads of tens, fifties, hundreds, and thousands were chosen out from the people to be representatives before God in terms of judicial affairs.
And so we know that the congregation as a whole is represented by a representative group of elected officials that are closely linked to the people.
Now, remember, the nasi also are elected. They’re elected out of that assembly. Remember it says in Numbers 16:2—and I think Numbers 1:16, and number 16 refers to the rebellion of Korah and the 250 princes—it said that they were elected out of the congregation or the assembly. In Numbers 1, it says that these are the princes of Israel called out of the assembly, elected to office by the assembly.
And so what we have here is a house of representatives—the congregation of the people—that are elected by the people to represent them at the next layer of government up. Then those people in convocation meet together and they select the princes, the nasi, the senators, as it were. And they represent a separate political body with separate civil affairs in mind.
So the congregation then, the group that is convened by the blowing of both trumpets, is a larger group. They’re more directly linked to the people, and they’re elected directly by the people. Whereas the princes, or the senators, are elected by representative groups—by the assemblies themselves—not by individuals.
The congregation of the people then had involvement in inheritance matters, judicial affairs, war, sending out of troops, establishment of peace treaties. They at least had some say in that. They were responsible for the selection of the head of the state. And then they dealt also as general counsel with the heads of the state in terms of matters of state policies.
So the congregation or the assembly here that’s convened in Numbers 10 is a political and civil reality in the covenant community, and they’re assembled by trumpets. And as I said, they’re the basis then for the selection of the nasi, or the senators.
**Commentary on Representative Government**
Now, this is very important. By the way, what I’ve said is not really all that novel to you—it may sound a little bit novel—but if you look at, you know, Kuyper and Ditch, for instance, or Winthrop’s commentary on Leviticus 4, most commentators would agree that this group of people that’s brought forward are an elected group of people representing the people and doesn’t mean all 2.5 million people coming forward at the blowing of the second trumpet.
So what I’ve told you is not something out of the ordinary. It’s fairly commonly accepted in its basic thrust. Maybe not in the specific details in terms of selection, but it’s real obvious as you do this sort of study of the scriptures that the congregation had a specific elected group of people to represent them before God. And so they represented another whole office, as it were. And that’s what we’re studying—Old Testament offices—and they represent another layer of government, as it were, of the people.
The representative nature of this group is quite important. What this means is that the people are directly involved in their own government. It’s a representative community. It’s a republic. It’s not a pure democracy. There are no plebiscite votes cast for the heads of state or for other important matters. The people are represented through their elected officials, and that gives the people a great deal more—a much greater amount of—representative government with God.
It means that it truly was a government of the people in that sense. And that’s why our country is known as a republic under God and not as a democracy as such. It’s a government of the people with representative officials from the people ruling over them.
This means that the people that are elected—also, since we have a representative government here—elected by the people—their responsibility is to serve those people in all their various offices. They serve, as it were, at the permission of the people. And their failure to serve the people result in their ouster from government.
So we have here another important concept here. We have, with representative government, we see here in two different bodies of representative officials, as it were, the idea of checks and balances also. And self-government—decentralized self-government. This has obvious implications if we think about it for the civil government we have. And also, I think, if we think about it a little bit further, for the sort of church governments we’re going to have.
This country—we got to with the form of government we have. And the United States Constitution of this country is based in large extent upon this sort of government that we see outlined under the Old Testament polity of the covenant people. It’s the same sort of government. These are not just coincidences. We have two bodies. I believe, because people understood the need for two bodies for checks and balances within the system.
Why do they need checks and balances? Because man is sinful and man will make incorrect decisions. And so we have to have a system of checks and balances. And so we saw that in operation, for instance, when the senate, the nasi, make a treaty with the Gibeonites. Yet there’s a check and balance against that in the part of the congregation who raise a voice up against that. And then there’s an accommodation made through that process.
Then the nasi and Joshua entered into a covenant with the Gibeonites really in good faith but with bad advice and bad counsel. They hadn’t thought it through correctly. So there’s a system of checks and balances. It’s very important. And in this country, we have checks and balances because we recognize the sinful nature of man—because of his fall into depravity.
The idea of representative government also, of course, is fundamental to an understanding of the covenant. We stand in covenant relationship with God because of a representative for us—Jesus Christ. And so the whole idea of covenant and a people voluntarily compacting together, making a covenant with one another for various activities, is based upon a biblical principle again of representative government.
The term federal in terms of the federal system that we have here comes from the term covenant—comes from the term foedus, which was the Latin term for covenant. And so federal theology, as it were, is covenant theology. And federal government has its roots in government with represented heads of people who are directly elected by the vote of the people and other checks and balances besides.
Another important implication of all this, of course, is that we don’t have a top-down government. It just burns me when people who espouse a position that God’s scripture should provide the basis for how our civil governments run in this country—how those people are characterized by the media as Ayatollah Khomeinis or some sort of religious dictator. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The system that the scriptures point out that we looked at briefly this morning—where you have checks and balances, where you had elected officials directly elected by the people, those people meet in convocation and elect the next higher group, the nasi, the senators. They also meet in convocation and select their chief officer as well, ordained by God, of course, and selected by him, but also confirmed by the people.
That’s true representational government. That is bottom-up. It’s not top-down. There’s no attempt to see a top-down system in scripture. It’s always bottom-up. And the idea that we’re somehow going to elect somebody like Calvin to the presidency of the country and then get him to rule everybody with a rod of iron is just crazy.
What we have is a bottom-up government, which, of course, stresses the need for evangelism. We’re not going to have proper government in this country until we get out there and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and convert men. And as a result of that conversion, teach them what the kingdom of God is all about—how it’s to be run in terms of civil affairs, which is representationally, through various checks and balances, with bottom-up government.
And that’s how this country was founded, of course—is bottom-up government. As a result of that, there was a need for virtuous living on the part of the people, and this was stressed in the early colonies and it should be stressed today as well.
You: if government is representational, it’s going to be closely linked to whatever the affairs of the people are—whatever the spiritual state of the people are. And so if we have corrupt leaders today in America, it’s because corrupt people elect corrupt leaders. If we have a national deficit in America and a representational form of government, it’s because the households have domestic deficits, as it were. They’re in debt.
And so if the people lose faith, they’re going to elect men of no faith, and hence provide a check and balance against themselves as well—working out, as it were, of God’s judgment against them.
Now, what’s interesting though is that once that happens—when a people loses faith and begins to elect people who don’t understand the principles of God’s government—you’ll begin to see the erosion of those middle-level layers of government which provide liberty and freedom to the people. We talked about this a little bit last week, but in this country, three things occurred fairly in 1913. One was the creation of the Federal Reserve system and a centralized banking system as a result of that.
The second thing was the constitutional amendment that allowed for the unlimited taxation of the people by the federal government. And the third thing that happened was the change—the constitutional amendment—to change the selection of senators.
Remember we talked about that last week. Senators now, the US senators, are directly elected by the people, aren’t they? That’s a direct violation of what God teaches us in these Old Testament political governments. He teaches us that the nasi were to be called out of the congregation, elected by representatives of the people.
And so in this country, you had originally the senators, the US senators, being selected by the state legislatures. The state legislature—the house—was elected by the people there. They then would send a nasi, or a senator, to Washington to serve as a US senator and represent the state as a whole, and not the individual constituents of it.
We talked about the electoral college also, and how that was changed. They didn’t need a constitutional amendment to change that. The Constitution of the United States basically said that the electoral college was comprised of however many electors there are. However many representatives there are at the US House plus the number of senators is the number of electoral votes, and that’s apportioned by those districts.
And what the Constitution said was it’s up to the state to send people to the electoral college to select the president by whatever means they think is best. Implied in all that—and what happened for the first, I don’t know, 50 or 100 years or so—was the state would have individual electors selected by the people in correlation to the selection of representatives at the state government. But what’s happened as a result of that little loophole left in the Constitution: the states now have said we’re going to have direct popular vote for the president, for a slate of electors dedicated to a president, and winner takes all.
Now, why is that a bad thing? I mean, it seems so democratic, you know, to have senators elected by the people, to have the president elected by direct vote of the people, and not these intermediate layers of government select the upper offices. The reason why that is a bad thing—look at the electoral college, for instance—is that if you’ve got a tight election, let’s say, and Oregon is about 50/50 on a particular which candidate they’re going to go for, a small dedicated group of radicals can provide whatever leverage is needed to put the one person over the top.
And so really, you end up with manipulation of the entire population by the part of a small dedicated group of people. What should happen is if you got a 50/50 vote, then one president should get 50% of the electoral votes, and the other should get the other 50%. But what we’ve gone to is more of a strict democracy. And so what do we end up with? We end up with media candidates.
There’s no way for the average person to know who he’s selecting, usually for US Senate or for the president. However, if we had those positions selected by people as they used to be—by the representatives that we’ve already picked—those people at an upper level of government can know the candidates, can know the implications of that candidate. That’s the biblical system. And it makes sense, and it worked in this country.
And now, when people have lost faith, they’re turning their back on the biblical system of representational government and stripping out those intermediate layers of government. Another important layer of government in America and its founding was the county level. People would elect county officers, and they had a lot of control over the people. But now that layer of government stripped away also because people have lost faith and so moved away from a biblical concept of civil government.
They’ve gone away from this representational nature that we saw in Numbers 10. They’ve gone away from the checks and balances. And have everybody directly elected by the people. And when that happens—when all the layers are finally stripped away—what you have is a civilization, and you can look at this historically: it always happens. A civilization that veers back and forth between the will of the people—the voice of the people being the voice of God, so to speak, no check and balance from the top—or to that usually ends up with a dictatorship where you have one man at the top making all the selections for the people.
Biblical government is government that produces freedom for the people. We need to in this country reestablish biblical government, representational, bottom-up, with these very bodies being elected by the constituent elements of the people. But the house of representatives selected by the people, and senators elected by the house of representatives or by the representatives of the state. That’s what we need to reestablish in this country.
And I’m telling you that almost nobody out there in the street understands any of this. Now, what I hope to do here is, as we go through these series of Old Testament government and church government—also make application to the state, because we’re involved there also. And we should—each man in this congregation, the women as well, to whatever degree we can—we can educate ourselves in these things. We should be talking to people about the nature of civil government and explaining to them from the basis of scripture the need for representational government and checks and balances.
We have to restore the faith of the people, which means the faith of people in the whole word of God and God’s counsel as it applies to representational government as well.
**Implications for Ecclesiastical Government**
Now, it also, of course, has implications for ecclesiastical government. What we see is the same principle should be followed in ecclesiastical government as well. In church government, we have elders elected by the people. And that, as we said before from last week, there’s good reason to believe that there’s another layer of government on top of the elders—the senators, as it were, of the elders in convocation together.
Churches would in this country form denominations. And originally, the idea behind that was a biblical one. They would band together in voluntary associations of churches. As a result of their banding together as local, self-governing churches, they then would delegate certain authorities to the denominational representatives that they would have elected.
And so if you want to look at a denominational situation that would be biblical, you’d have churches electing elders, elders selecting men out of their group to go and represent themselves at these denominational meetings. And the people be represented not by a direct vote in terms of denominational affairs, but rather by the elected officials coming out of their own governing group of people in their own church. And so we then have a system of checks and balances.
And that’s what happened in this country originally at the establishment of denominations. Many of them were formed on this very principle: a voluntary association of churches with higher courts over them. It’s important to remember, though, that these higher courts are a delegated and advisory court. In other words, the federal government, for instance, going back to the civil government, only has the powers that are delegated to it by the state. That was the original idea.
With denominations, you’d have the same idea going on here: that only whatever powers are delegated to the denomination on the part of the church is what would occur at the denominational level. In other words, they’d have real authority—as we said at the nasi—but they wouldn’t be authoritarian. They wouldn’t end up ruling the entire church, as it were, and making all the decisions for the people.
The federal government shouldn’t end up making all the decisions for the people. And with the erosion of biblical government and with the system of checks and balances and the civil government that we talked about in Numbers 10, we see just that. The federal government and the state government become more tyrannical in everything that they do and begin to run the affairs of the people and no longer see themselves as a delegated authority from the people.
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COMMUNION HOMILY
No communion homily recorded.
Q&A SESSION
Q1: Roger W.: You mentioned in your opening that the Christian Reformed Church’s articles state that consistory authority is original while major assemblies have delegated authority. Can you clarify how this delegation works in practice?
Pastor Tuuri: Well, the consistory at the lower level has original authority given by God to the church. They then delegate authority upward to the Senate and other assemblies. Of course, the same principle applies at the lower level too, doesn’t it? You select elders, you vote for representatives in civil government, you select elders in your church. But when you do that, you don’t turn over to them all affairs that God has given you to run.
You still are self-governing, and it’s only in certain delegated situations where the elder would take account as a judge or some of the things we’ll talk about. But his authority also is delegated on the part of the people acting in obedience to the word of God in terms of establishing these governments. So what we have here this morning is the congregation—a group of people duly convened, elected by the people to exercise authority in specific instances.
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Let me review then their place in the whole context of what we’ve been talking about for the last couple of months. Next week, we’ll be beginning a series of three talks on the prophets, priests, and kings. Today we come to a conclusion of those four groups we talked about in Joshua 23 and 24: the elders, the choreim or officers, the ro or the heads, and also the judges.
So we’re going to bring this first half of the series on Old Covenant government to an end now and sum it up for you. Hopefully what we’ve seen so far: the government of the people, the community of Israel, consisted first and foremost of families. There was a family structure to all of this. The families are the delegate—they have the initial authority from God to run the affairs of their households.
You cannot have biblical government without strong, self-governing families. It won’t exist. It’s the prerequisite of all other levels of government—family government. And of course, family government has its prerequisite: the self-government of the individual, and particularly the importance there of the head of the household or the head of the family, the father. Without self-governing men, families will not operate properly.
Without families operating properly, you will not have good civil or church government. The families are the first and foremost government that God has established. It’s important to see that they’re the basis for everything else—all the other forms of government.
The families are governed by elders. Each head of the household is an elder. He’s the oldest person in the family and he’s the wisest person in the family—hopefully, if he’s been living in accordance with God’s word. The families are ruled by elders. The family groups coming together would also be ruled by elders of the extended family as well, with each having an elder representing them. Elders govern these families in extended form as well as in their individual form.
Their primary method of government we saw was by counsel, by godly wisdom, and by the respect due to them by the people that sought their counsel. Elders had authority then in the family and in the extended family as well. Elders, as the basis of this, formed the pool for all other forms of government that came out of it. In order for a person to be a Mesai or a representative of the congregation, or to be a judge, he had to be an elder. He had to be a good functioning elder in his household first and foremost.
And we see that same requirement, of course, in the New Testament. To be an officer of the church, you must first be an officer of your family and exercising self-government there, being tested there as it were.
The elders, then, as I said, formed the government of the family and also provided a pool of men that would be available for special offices that we’ll talk about. Now, Deuteronomy 16:18 says that there were two other officers required besides the family and the elders: there were judges and officers.
Judges, of course, as we talked about, were selected—we read about that in Deuteronomy 1. They were selected as heads of tens, 50s, hundreds, and thousands. We talked about the fact that those tens are probably extended families, not nuclear families. So we had families, we had elders joining the families, and then we had the selection of judges to settle disputes primarily among the people and to issue the judgments of God’s word as it relates to the specific case.
By the way, that structure of tens, 50s, hundreds, and thousands is also seen—we made the point when we talked about judges—that this system of 10, 50, hundreds, and thousands is a basic pattern for government. And another way to look at that is: if you look at the Old Covenant, the way the army was organized was also in the same principle of tens, 50s, hundreds, and thousands. It wasn’t just restricted to judicial government; it was also true of organization for military affairs.
So I think it provided a basis for all kinds of other government. I have references to that, but I won’t give them to you now. If you’re interested in that, I can give you the references later—they prove that it also related to military affairs.
So we have judges who settle disputes. Deuteronomy 16:18 says that in all the towns you go into, you are to appoint judges. And those judges would be elected by the people. They would have to be proved as being good elders in their household.
Secondly, Deuteronomy 16:18 said also to appoint shofrim or officers in all your land. When we looked at the choreim, we saw a Spirit-filled administrator, as it were. Remember the spirit that was upon Moses was taken by God and put upon the choreim for their exercise of administrative government under God. The choreim were Spirit-filled administrators assisting the chief magistrates and also the judges and other magistrates administratively.
Again, the shofrim announced God’s law in terms of its application to whatever they were involved with. And you remember when they prepared for war, it was the shofrim who would go through and teach the people God’s requirements for war—and which people were to be excused from war and which were not. Though they were administering the affairs of government there and not being judges, they still had a teaching function, a prophetic function of declaring the word of God in their administration.
And we saw some correlations between that and the office of deacon as well.
So we’ve got family government being the central base, elders running families and extended families, elders providing a pool from which all these other officers will be taken. Out of that pool, then, we have the selection of judges to settle disputes among the people in all their lands. Out of that pool of elders, we also have the selection of officers in terms of administering the people of God in a Spirit-filled way.
And then also, we talked for the last two weeks about the body politic—and the body politic, as it were, the civil government that was established, didn’t just have judges and officers. It also had a group of people that represented the people, and there were two houses here. It was bicameral, if you want to look at it that way. There was a house of representatives—a bunch of duly elected representatives of the congregation—and there was a Senate, the nasi’im.
Now it’s probable that those two bodies, one directly elected by the people, the other elected by representatives of the people, was obviously in place, as we saw from Numbers 10, at the national level. It probably was also in place at the tribal level. Each tribe probably had its own Senate and its own House of Representatives, the same way that in our country today each state has its own governors, its own senators, and its own House of Representatives.
And then we have national groups as well. This provided a system of, as we said, checks and balances and representational government for the people. It formed the basis for the Hebrew Republic.
Then these various offices that we’ve talked about had specific delegation of functions to each specific body. We saw, for instance, that the Mesai were responsible for entering into foreign relations, whereas the congregation was responsible for issuing troops, for advising the chief magistrate, and actually selecting the chief magistrate.
So what we have is: family government—elders running families; judges and officers appointed out of that pool of elders to settle disputes and to administer the government in a God-given fashion; and then the selection of a body politic, as it were, comprised of two separate houses: the House of Representatives and the Senate, as it were—the congregation, the Yidah, on one hand, or on the other hand, the nasi’im, the senators. These people, not directly elected, but elected by representatives of the people. And that’s the basic polity of the Old Covenant government.
Now there are a couple of other terms that are used to talk about that government, but they really are more of a general character and do not represent specific offices. One of those two terms is normally translated in the King James as “head,” and it just meant head. It just meant the head of whatever group was being talked about. Sometimes Mesai referred to as heads because they were elected heads of the tribes, for instance, and they’d be called a head.
Sometimes members of the congregation would be seen as heads because they’d be the head of the people they represented.
The other term frequently used is “ruler.” A very generalized term again—it just means to have dominion. And so I think that in terms of special elective offices that were normally found in the covenant community, we have covered the basic polity of the Old Covenant.
We have yet to address, however, the idea of the prophet, the priest, and the king, and in the context of that, the role of the special tribe, the Levites, in terms of administration of some of these things. But that’s the basic polity of Old Covenant government. And I hope that kind of brings it all together for you and sums it up to a certain extent: families, elders in families, judges, officers, and then the two representative body politic—the House of Representatives and the Senate.
There is one other term I wanted to mention. Each Sunday we sing from Psalm 47. And in Psalm 47, one of the lines that we sing is “Sing praises unto God, assemble men of Abraham, come people, princes nigh.” And you might wonder there which one of these offices that “prince” is. It’s not specified as to which of these offices is being talked about by “prince.”
What’s interesting is that word is the same word that’s found in Numbers 21:18. You can just turn there for a second.
Numbers 21:18: “The princes dig the well. The nobles of the people digged it by the direction of the lawgiver with their staves. And from the wilderness they went to Mattanah.”
When it says “the princes dig the well,” that’s a generalized term for prince there—meaning the rulers. We don’t know if it was the nasi’im, the Senate, or the House of Representatives. Could have been both. Then it says “the nobles of the people digged it.” And it’s another description then of the princes.
And that word “noble” is the same word in Psalm 47 that’s translated “prince”—”assemble men and princes before God.” And that’s what we do on Sunday. We assemble.
Now, the reason I bring that up is that the word “prince” in Psalm 47 and “noble” in Numbers 21:18—the root word is the Hebrew word nadiv, and it has its root in a Hebrew word that meant “to be willing”—to be willing. And so what’s talked about there in Numbers 21:18 is that the princes, the rulers of the people—and that could be seen as both the judges, the elders, the House of Representatives, and the Senate—those people were characterized as noble ones, as willing ones who perform their service willingly before God and not under compulsion.
Now, that has implications for us today. If we want to exercise dominion in this earth, we have to be willing ones before God. We have to be nobles in that sense in our household, willingly administering affairs to that household. We have to have elders in our churches willingly doing the work that’s required of elders. We have to have deacons who are willingly administering the other affairs of the assembled congregation of the people of God. We have to eventually elect leaders who understand biblical government and who engage in it willingly and wholeheartedly. They have to have a mind to serve.
We need as a congregation to demonstrate leadership to the state of Oregon, to the city of Portland. We’re doing that. We’re being looked at more and more—individuals in this congregation for leadership in specific areas in terms of legislation, in terms of reconstruction activities in the Pacific Northwest. We have to be willingly entering into those arenas of conflict as princes and nobles of God. The men of this church have to develop a willingness to do that.
Now, we’re going to have a meeting this Wednesday night. I’m not going to blow any trumpets, but we’re going to get together Wednesday night. Men of the church—if you can make it, great. If you can’t, don’t feel guilty about that. But if you can, it’d be good. And we’re going to assign specific tasks in terms of legislation in Salem relating to homeschooling and to child abuse. We’ll also talk about abortion.
And what I want you to do is to come to that meeting Wednesday night. If you come as nobles, as princes willing to enter into the service that God has called us to do in this church and in the extended community in which we live as well.
And when you look for elders, when we look for elders here in the next six months from relatives of this church, we want to look for people who are willing to enter into the service of God and can perform the functions required of elders. We’ll talk more about specifically those functions as we go into the New Testament in four weeks. But that’s a central characteristic: willingness.
Now in Numbers 10, the verse the scriptures we started off with this morning—we talked about the blowing of the trumpets, assembling the Senate, assembling the congregations of the people. And the trumpets were also used in the context also to send the people off into war.
In verse 8: “The sons of Aaron, the priests shall blow with the trumpets, and they shall be beat you for an ordinance forever throughout your generations.”
Verse 9: “And if you go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresses you, then you shall blow an alarm with the trumpets, and you shall be remembered before the Lord your God, and you shall be saved from your enemies.”
The trumpets, summoning God’s government, as it were, are also seen as summoning the government of the whole people—self-governing individuals under God—to go forward into war against an enemy that oppresses them.
We stand in this nation today in a bittersweet situation. We still have the remnant of biblical government in this country. We have a tremendous heritage of biblical, representational government founded upon the Hebrew Republic. For that, we should give thanks to Almighty God, that we can sit in this church today and discuss civil government from a biblical perspective and say, “We’ve done that in this country. We’re still doing it to a certain extent.”
And yet, also, we all know that the country has lost faith. It’s turned its back on God. And as a result, it’s turned its back on his government. And now we’re in a position where the people of the land would oppress the people of God, because they’ve fallen away from the faith. And they now would construct systems of political government that oppress the people.
Administrative rules is an oppression of the people because it’s a violation of biblical government that we’ve seen here in terms of the representational nature of the people in government. Who represents us in the bureaucracy? Nobody. These are not shofrim—Spirit-filled people administering the affairs of government from the law of God. We have people oppressing us.
It’s responsibility of the ecclesiastical community, the priests—it says in verse 8—to blow the trumpets, to sound the alarm, to assemble the men of Israel together in convocation that they might decide the affairs of state or that they might go off into war against the enemy. And I guess what I’m saying this morning is that we’re blowing the trumpets.
We’ve talked in the past several months ago about the child abuse situation, the attack that’s coming on the homeschoolers in the state, the abortion clinics—the death clinics that we have in the state—various areas. The people of God are being oppressed by government, and it’s our responsibility to hear the blowing of the trumpets today.
The proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ is the blowing of that trumpet and its implication for every sphere of government. We have to proclaim the crown rights of Jesus Christ, the good news of the ascension of the Savior King to the throne. And we have to see the application to the civil arena as well. And so we have to go off into war these days.
Now we know we wage war in this country through the verbalization of the message of Jesus Christ, not through physical means. However, it may come to a place, of course, when an ungodly nation invades a godly nation. And there certainly will be a call for going to physical warfare with them. But we’re not at that point in this country now. We’re at the point where we have to raise our voice. We have to, as men, as heads of our families, be willing representatives of God in our family, rule our families from God’s word, and then go out and rule the government as well, from God’s foundation.
I mentioned earlier Jabesh Gilead. The trumpets were blown. There was an ungodly enemy in the midst of the congregation—it was one whole tribe of the people of Israel. The trumpets were blown. They were summoned to war. They were told to go off to war. But the men of Jabesh Gilead didn’t come to war. And what happened to those men was that then holy war is declared against them.
We have an obligation. We have a freedom in this country to be involved in these affairs, to be active as it were in defending our families against the intrusions of the state. But we have more than a freedom. We have an obligation from God to go forward into war willingly as princes and nobles of the people. That’s what we have to do as men of this congregation. We have to restore biblical government in this land again, based upon Old Testament polity. We’ll see no change as we go to the New Testament in civil polity. We’ll see the same principles maintained. We’ll see the same principles maintained in the establishment of the covenant community and its officers.
And so we stand now in the new covenant, empowered by God and responsible by God to preach that gospel the way that Jason did—to proclaim another king, Jesus Christ, who has an order of government that he insists the nations follow. And if we do that correctly, God will bless us.
Says that the trumpets were blown to assemble Israel for war. It would be a memorial to God, and he would save his people. It reminds God that we’re faithful to blow those trumpets, to sound the alarm, and to call the people to willing action and obedience to him. If we do that, it says that God will hear those trumpets. He’ll remember our faithfulness, and he’ll deliver us.
Let’s pray.
Almighty God, we thank you for yourself. We thank you, Father, for the promise that you will hear us, Lord God, as we sound the trumpets, preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and its implications. We know, Lord God, that we can do nothing of our own strength. We know that, Father, though, that if we move out obedient to your scriptures in our families, establishing godly families in our communities and in our churches, that you’ll hear us. You’ll understand our efforts and our work, and you’ll bless us in those activities.
And we know also, Lord God, that if we refuse to do those things, as you showed us at Jabesh Gilead, you’ll curse us and bring death upon us. Help us, Lord God, to be faithful men, leading our families in righteousness, holiness, knowledge, and dominion, governing under our King Jesus Christ, the way that your scriptures instruct us to govern. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.
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Q2: Questioner: You know, the question they asked—yeah, show—was do you think that was a valid question? And I would just like to say that I put in Genesis 43 on that, right? Mary Pride in her book says that coach—a study where I think between like 85 and 97% of the parents use corporal punishment at some time or other in their suffering. Plus, what I was trying to get her to see was that their televote question to be applicable to our discussion should have been: Do you think it’s appropriate to arrest a person for spanking a child? Because that’s really what we’re talking about. We’re not talking about whether or not it’s a good idea. We’re talking about whether you’re going to throw people in jail or take their kids away.
Pastor Tuuri: Well, what did you make of what calendar she came back on?
Questioner: Well, we just, you know, battered back and forth. One of the reasons that she kind of got irate about everything was that see, Paul Lyman—I don’t know if he represented himself to me as being a Christian and he’s the one who wanted me to say something about spanking. And so he asked the question about spanking kids, and he brought it up because he wanted an affirmation that was a good thing to do for me. And see, Margie doesn’t believe in that. And so she got upset because he brought it up kind of, and she said that if he did that, I had to come back and balance it out, you know. So there’s a dispute between the two of them that was going on too during the break.
So that was one of the reasons why all that happened.
Pastor Tuuri: No, well, actually, she came back from break and went to the woman and said, “You don’t spank your kids hardly ever.” But that was okay. I didn’t, you know—I think that when you talk to people about child abuse, it would be a real mis-tactical mistake to just focus on the issue of spanking.
The point I was trying to get Marty to realize was that if different form of if different people with a different philosophy come into power at the state, they could say it is criminal child abuse not to spank your kids. The question isn’t whether or not what’s the best way of upbringing, bringing kids up. The question is at what level does the state intervene and take the kids away from the parents? And so, you know, you want to avoid the whole child thing. You don’t want to go out there and say we should have the right to bruise our kids. You know what? So I was real happy to turn to some other areas actually, and I thought that Mr. Soil—one of the lawyers—made a real good point in emphasizing because Margie what she tried to do too was, and this is what people will do to you, they’ll try to talk about the parent versus the child, parents’ rights, child rights. And he what Soil did, I thought very tactfully, was to say no—there’s a family. We’re talking about don’t let him divide the family like that in the discussions.
Margie Boule, I wouldn’t think so, really.
Questioner: Yeah. You find out where it is and I’ll send the pastor a tape and say you ought to talk this lady about.
Pastor Tuuri: Yes. I was going to read this letter. Sure, because on that show we got letters. So I thought I would read an example of a letter that we got. And you got a lot—I got a lot of calls for the next two days.
I had a 29-year-old man with three beautiful children and simply wonderful wife of late. My 10-year-old daughter sexually abused her two years ago. The charges are just not true. Services, you have taken your grandparents’ work, requested not to have any contact with children. I cooperated with the whole thing from the start, but I’m very bad. You people. I feel I have destroyed everything and I’m suicidal. Very early to live with her grandma on January 10th, she went to spend a weekend with her grandparents. She came home and said her grandpa was going to take my wife and take her away from us. She also said she was going to take me to court. After we found her grand, I told her I didn’t care what she did. I was not going to be laughed at from school and play. Thirteen: Before we were told what she alleged I did, she got to go live with her grandma, being questioned by—I have no money, no job, requiring legal counsel. And it’s just me. I have lost what to do next. Please write back what’s going on.
You can see the child. We got some other guys in jail. All I have to do is you not show that night, school next day, and you see this man and going on. A lot more and more. I probably got at least a dozen calls in the next day or two from stories very similar to that. And it’s kind of the same thing too where they don’t really expect anybody to be able to help them. They just want to share with somebody. They just can’t believe what’s happened.
Multnomah County is particularly bad for all of this. I guess there are several representatives and senators who are having a lot of trouble in their own districts with CSD. So I think that there’s the beginning of a groundswell in the legislature to try to reverse some of these things that CSD has accomplished legislatively and administratively through rules.
So I think that there are at least somewhat favorable prospects for getting some kind of legislation introduced and passed. It’s just getting so obvious the abuse of the system by CSD people that all kinds of people are coming forward now.
But what we need—you know, what really we need to fight this child issue specifically—is leadership. It’s just a sad fact that most people out there just do not know how to go about getting anything done anymore. Men aren’t leaders anymore in our society. And this congregation, you know, if the men in this congregation begin to assume leadership functions and to say yes, I’ll willingly volunteer, get involved in this particular area—recognizing of course you have limitations, and it’s wrong to not fulfill your responsibilities to your family in order to do this. But if you can do that and spare some time, believe me, you can exercise a great deal of leadership with a little amount of effort and really start to accomplish some good.
We really need some leadership in Salem, particularly. Particularly, it’s something to pray about, and we’ll talk about it Wednesday night too—more specifics.
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Q3: Questioner (Roger W.): Are there any questions about the talk at all?
Pastor Tuuri: Roy, I’m having real trouble thinking clearly about the familial concept that’s present there because that is so absent to my own life. How would you approach that?
Questioner: Well, you mean in terms of the family structure, or I’m not sure I quite get the question—head of the household?
Pastor Tuuri: Yeah. Not necessarily be a nuclear family, but extended.
Questioner: Right. The point I made early on was that in the division of the tribal structure of Israel, you had a tribe, you had the nation, you had tribes. Underneath the tribes, you had clans, which were like thousands of families, or extended families. And then the next level down is the Bethab—the house of the father. And that was an extended family.
They wouldn’t necessarily—they would be in the same, obviously in the situation they were in the wilderness. They’d be right in the same area. In the land when they went into Canaan, they’d be in the same town, of course. They wouldn’t necessarily have the same house, but the father would exercise an eldership function over the entire extended family.
And so if you had, you know, married sons who had children of their own, they’d be seen as part of that beth—the house of the father. Now, we know that because of the sin of Achan when he was selected out with the defeat of the people at Ai—and you look at that passage and you see how they had to come forward by tribes, clans, and then beths, house of the father. They don’t then split them off into other houses. They then start bringing the individual men by.
So the idea is that the extended family is a biblical concept. I think—we’ll look at it more when we get into the New Testament, but it’s biblical concept there. And I think we should begin to see ourselves in relationship to a larger group, the larger extended family in our country.
It’s real hard to do because we’re so mobile. There’s an excellent article that I used to pass out in our study on Unconditional Surrender called “The Bypassing of Natural Community.” And when you had an agrarian culture, it was much more—it was a lot easier to preserve the extended family. You look at, for instance, the impact of mothers trying to raise kids. We’re real big on having lots of kids, cause the scriptures were big on having lots of kids. But you got to remember that in the scriptures, you didn’t have lots of kids off in a little house by yourself. You had lots of kids in the context of your mother, aunts, uncles, a fairly large extended family with a lot of other adults interacting with the kids. And so it was a lot easier.
And you know, probably if you talk to some of your grandmothers or so, and you look at who are involved in farming communities in this nation—same thing was true then. The older aunts, uncles, and the older grandparents, what not, would assist with the raising of the kids. And so it wasn’t one woman and the husband of course working basically out of his house—so it wasn’t one woman trying to take care of four, five, six kids all day long and try to teach them school too in your splitted little household.
It’s important to recognize that there’s not much we can do about it immediately, but it’s important for husbands to recognize the problems that the wives suffer because of the lack of extended family. And then it’s important that the wives also understand how the father, the husband, has been cut off because of the disappearance of the extended family—has been cut off from a good deal of counsel he would get from older men, from his father and from other relatives as fathers and the elders as it were of the community. So we really suffer. It’s a—you know, it’s unfortunate, but that’s the situation we’re in.
I think probably what we want to do is begin to teach our children the importance of that. Bill Gothard, of course, has stressed that a lot in his material. I think he’s probably, you know, he may be in error in particular application in some of those things, but I think what he’s pointing toward—which is an involvement of various levels of the family altogether and the involvement of grandparents, for instance, in the education of their children—is a godly principle. And it demonstrates the existence of the extended family.
Now, the problem of course is that if we start involving our—the kids as grandparents or great-grandparents and some of our families, we’re going to have a lot of trouble. Because frankly, I mean—there’s no nice way to say this. It was that generation that basically forsook the faith and the application of the faith to many areas of society. And so not in every case, but in some cases, we’ll find many of our extended family who want nothing to do with that and want nothing to do with involvement with the kids or anything else.
Is that sort of what you’re—
Questioner: Let’s see. Mark, you had a question, I think, first.
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Q4: Michael L.: Talking about one thing that I’ve always associated with that concept—one public manifestation of is the resistance to women voting, the idea of their husbands being represented in public. It was their hope, and I wondered about the implications of this theology and this concept of government. If we didn’t reconstruct our society through our exact specification—well, you know, you hate to jump to pronouncements on such things, but I’d want to study it out more. And I think that one thing we have to recognize in all these things is that as we grow in obedience to what God has told us, he’ll extend our understanding.
Pastor Tuuri: But I think that I think there’s a great likelihood we would do away with women’s suffrage. Yeah. I think that in this church when we have heads of households meetings, it’s the male heads of households who come. And well, when we select our next elder, it’ll be the male heads of households who vote for that elder, not the wives. And that’s because in the census, for instance, in Numbers 1 and other places in Numbers, they counted the houses by the heads of the family, the fighting men.
And so the family was represented by the elder of the family in those governmental decisions. And I think it’s a violation—I think it tends to violate the idea of the unity of the family when husband and wife go to a church business meeting and cast differing votes on an issue. You know, what to do on an issue. I mean, it’s a divided house.
Now, there are people who, and we’d want to talk to these people, there are other people involved in, you know, Presbyterian and Reformed denominations that believe it is proper for women to vote. And I’d like to look at their reasoning, but I would tend to think that on the basis of what we’ve seen so far in the other cases of the representatives in the Old Covenant, that no, we wouldn’t want women to be voting there.
By the way, just one other thing there—one of the other implications I mentioned earlier: county government in this country. It was typical in the colonization of this country where each county represented its own commonwealth, Christian Commonwealth, if you will. It was typical for not just not to have women vote, but only to have landed people—people that had property—vote. And there’s another implication to start to think through: Why was that? Was that based upon biblical government? If it was, should we go back to implementing it?
And I think there’s several reasons why you might want to think about it. As it is now, if you’ve got a county that, for instance, is going to vote on a property tax measure, or other measure of zoning, for instance, then the people without property end up taking through the vote the property of the landed people without their consent. So there’s lots of ramifications for voting patterns in this country. It’s been so recent that came through—what, almost—that’s right, years ago—which is incredible to me because it’s such—it’s so foreign culturally, about who live without—yeah, or without the Federal Reserve system, you know.
The thing is, what was I going to say about that? Oh, of course. That part of that—for instance, when Margie Boule gets on two at four and talks about the right of the parent and the right of the child and the right of the husband and the right of the mother, it’s the splintering force that breaks up even the nuclear family. They’re busting the atom now, as it were. And the vote—and what we’re moving toward, of course, is universal suffrage for all children who can probably mark the ballot. And we’ve seen that too, or we keep lowering the voting age. I think it was, you know, Dabney—and I’ve quoted this lots of times—but Dabney talks about the uselessness of conservatives who aren’t Christians. He said, “If they’ll oppose the right of women to vote, then as soon as they gain the suffrage, they’ll defend the right of women to vote as if it was one of the fundamental principles of the country. And then he talks about the next thing to go will be children being voting. Then he said eventually they’ll probably—they’ll finally take their last stand in not allowing dogs to vote, you know? They finally gave in on that.”
So it’s a movement away from the representational federal system we have toward a more pure democracy. I think that’s initiated that kind of universal suffrage. A lot of that had come out of the Civil War. It was probably one of the major causes for the Civil War, yeah.
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Q5: Questioner (Howard L.): One couple of things there. The Civil War—one of the things I didn’t really get at, cause there wasn’t a whole lot of time left, but if you have these various levels of government, then the scriptural position is that those levels of government can interpose themselves between the individuals and a higher level of government.
Pastor Tuuri: For instance, King Saul was going to kill Jonathan because he had tasted the honey he wasn’t supposed to eat. And the people—then it says all the people that were there represented, I’m sure, through their captains, interposed themselves between Saul and Jonathan and said he shall not die. And Saul didn’t treat that like a rebellion. It seems to have been part of a legitimate function of the people in assemblage to challenge an order of the king and say no, this is contrary to the will of God. And it interposed themselves.
And the Civil War—that’s what it was. That was one of the basic principles of the resistance of the South was to interpose themselves between the federal government and the citizens. What happened in civil government was a shift—from seeing the federal government as the creation of the states and under the jurisdiction of the states with delegated authorities from the states only—there was a shift after the Civil War to saying the federal government is the determiner of all other factors in the state. There was a reversal.
And what you then had from the Civil War time on basically is government from the top down. The federal government says 55 miles an hour—we say so. That would have been ridiculous, you know, prior to the Civil War for a state to consider such a thing.
Now, there were instances like that and the federal government before the Civil War did the same thing the federal government does today. They say well, if you don’t do it, we’ll cut off funding from you. The states have bought into the coffers of the federal government and as a result bought into the jurisdiction of the federal government over them.
But anyway, the Civil War is a big transition from a representative group of people to a more of a—well, tyranny is a little strong—but to more of a tyrannical, top-down government.
Questioner: Do you have—do you have any flowcharts or pictures, diagrams of all the different governmental agencies in the Old Testament, like a chart that would show the elder, the family, the family heads, and then the heads of households? Would be real visualize.
Pastor Tuuri: Yeah, maybe I’ll try to work on that. I haven’t done anything like that.
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Q6: Questioner: Now, any other questions? You mentioned so strong and being awesome that other—they offer your capable man. That’s right, some of the similarity in the business field. I remember seeing on a show on PBS a while back where the head of one of the big car companies in Japan had originally been a worker—a line worker—worked his way up to foreman and finally worked up to basically president of the company from the bottom up. And that was again that was not uncommon at all in America in its first hundred years.
Pastor Tuuri: The distinction that you’re drawing there—we have to be good to go to school before you can be an officer, for instance, or a certain amount of educational training in this country. What it’s led to is the imposition of a class structure. And so you have businesses today who have class warfare between the management and the unions. And one of the reasons for that—Rushdoony has talked about this real eloquently. One of the reasons for that struggle is that the union people know they can never work their way up to a position of management. They’ve created an unbreakable breach, unbridgeable breach between labor and management. And as a result, they end up with perpetual warfare.
Well, now there are people who believe that perpetual warfare is what brings salvation. You know, thesis and antithesis, and that’s what makes the whole world go around, you know, is that kind of warfare.
Questioner: There are managers I’ve worked for him at the graduate center who believe that the way to manage properly is to create conflict among the people you’re managing. Is that right?
Pastor Tuuri: What’s the biological basis of Marxism?
Questioner: Right. Would you say that not necessarily a result of economic competition maybe? But you know, on the other hand, it works some—
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]
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