Exodus 4:15-16; 6:28-7:2
AI-GENERATED SUMMARY
Tuuri examines the Old Testament office of the prophet as one who acts as God’s mouthpiece, speaking His authoritative “law word” to the people, the king, and the priests3. He argues that the prophet’s function was to expound the law, declare God’s blessings and cursings, and point to the coming grace of the covenant mediator, Jesus Christ6. The sermon establishes that Jesus is the ultimate Prophet predicted by Moses, and through Him, the New Covenant church and individual believers are restored to the Adam’s original office of prophet, priest, and king1,5. Practically, this means the church must exercise a prophetic ministry by declaring God’s law and judgment to the civil magistrate and apostate churches, rather than remaining silent like the false prophets who cry “peace” when there is no peace1,8.
SERMON TRANSCRIPT
You may mark in your Bibles before we get going here. Exodus 4:15 and 16, and Exodus 6:28 through 7:2. We’ll be looking at those in a couple of minutes.
This past week, I got a nice letter from Reverend Norman Jones, who as most of you know is the brother of Gordon Jones and a minister in the Reformed Church of the United States, who’s spoken to our congregation on several occasions and real good man, a theonomist and a real friend of this church, Becky.
And he sent me a couple of articles. One of the articles was from the Reformed Herald, which is the publication of their church, and in it he had an article that he wrote about how to grow a church and he used this church as one of two examples of successfully growing churches. He also sent me another newsletter, however, called the Mid America Messenger and I wanted to just read a short portion of one of the articles, the very beginning editorial called “The Noble Office of Elder” and it has to do with what we were talking about last week in terms of application to denomination.
So I just wanted to read it and sort of reinforce what I said last week. Okay, he’s talking about elders. Elders both ruling and teaching are essential. They are necessary for the being of the church. If it should ever happen that the Christian church are reduced to one congregation with its office bearers, then the church of Christ would still exist on earth. A consistory, a collection of elders and local elders is an essential assembly.
But in reformed church polity, when local churches acknowledge the same faith and covenant together to act in concord, a classis constituted a meeting of the classes is thus a broader, not a higher assembly which meets together periodically to give mutual assistance to its various churches. A classis contributes to the well-being of the church but it is not essential to the being of the church. Now that’s a very interesting statement coming from a reformed denomination with implications that some of you may think through, saying that the eldership in a local church is necessary but involvement in a classis is not necessary for the being of the church.
To go on, that is why no one and no classes may lord it over a local consistory. That’s also why it is not reformed to think of synods as the highest assembly of the church. Synods are the broadest assembly which meets periodically to contribute to the church’s well-being. If any assembly of office bearers is to be called the highest, it is the local consistory. So the point is that as we talked about last week, where you have an assembly and then representatives of the assembly who meet at the next air of government as it were, the princes or the senate.
And so in denominational affiliation, we see the same structure. What we tried to stress last week was that this doesn’t mean that there you have higher offices necessarily. They’re broader offices in that application. And we talked about how this country, of course, was founded politically along those lines. And denominations also are an outworking of that basic principle found in the Old Testament. So I thought it was interesting to have that reinforced through that newsletter and I appreciated that very much from Reverend Jones.
Today, however, we want to stress the fact that even though we’ve looked at some elements of civil government and ecclesiastical government from the old covenant. We’ve looked at judges, officers, elders, family structure. We’ve looked at the necessity of the assembly or representatives of the people meeting together to decide matters, and then the presidents, the princes or the senate—a better term—or presiding officers who are elected by the elected officials representing another layer of government, a broader layer as it were, as to use the editorial’s term.
If we look at these things as a great political system, it’s a great point of sadness for me to reflect on this in terms of America and see how much this country has lost. If those of you who have Vos’s The Hebrew Republic, if you would turn to the last four or five pages sometime this week and read the last couple of pages of that great book, you get an idea of the tremendous blessing that this country had in its original institution through the form of government which is based upon biblical polity. And we’ve fallen far from that.
However, having said that, it’s also important to recognize that was not the end of civil government or ecclesiastical government in the old covenant. This morning, we’re going to talk about the office of the prophet or the function of the prophet. And that also has to do with the governing of the old covenant people both politically, civilly, and ecclesiastically, and additionally to the families as well.
What we’re trying to say here is that we have a good institution of government here, a good structure of church government and civil government. That structure by itself is not salvation. That structure is still being exercised by people involved in that structure are still sinful men. And so you have the necessity in the old covenant of a prophet to address that situation. And we’re going to talk about that this morning from the verses beginning with the verses we read from Deuteronomy 18.
Now those of you who are thinking of such things will recognize that once again we turn to a part of the Pentateuch, the first five books of the Bible, the law of Moses as it’s sometimes called, and specifically to the book of Deuteronomy which means the second law. And we turn to that again self-consciously because Deuteronomy and the first five books of the Bible, the Pentateuch, establishes the foundation for the old covenant church.
And I think also then we see the new covenant church and the new covenant form of civil government also being built upon the law and the prophets. And so we begin with the discussion of the function of the prophet in the Pentateuch. And it’s been in the Pentateuch that we’ve seen all these various aspects of old covenant government. We’ve seen the initial teaching on it from the Pentateuch and then we’ve looked at application of that in the rest of the old covenant and then we try to make application in a limited sense to the new covenant as well, and we’ll do that in more detail as the weeks go on here when we get to the new testament verses relating to church government.
The point is that the rest of the scriptures in the old covenant are built upon the law of the first five books. And so we have to go to that law for beginning to understand what these offices are. So we turn now to the passage before us in Deuteronomy 18. And it says specifically, and we’ll be looking at verse 15 for a couple of minutes here:
“The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee of thy brethren like unto me. Unto him ye shall hearken.”
And so we have here the promise in the second giving of the law with Moses about to die and not enter the promised land. We have the institution of a perpetual function or office. And I don’t think which term we use there is necessarily that important. It gets into quite a debate as to whether it was an office or a function. But in any event, there was a prophetic ministry throughout the rest of the old covenant that is instituted by God here in Deuteronomy.
He says after Moses dies, I’ll raise up prophets among you like unto him. And so you’ll have these perpetually.
We want to look at this morning is first of all, what is a prophet? What are the marks of a prophet? Who did God talk about when he gave us these verses? And then we’ll look at what the function of that person is to society.
So first of all, what is a prophet? It’s common in a lot of circles to think of a prophet as somebody who knows about the future, who can give an utterance about the future and that will come to pass and that man’s now a prophet. And certainly there’s some sense in which that’s true. And in the verses we read this morning, there was indications in there that in verse 21, that the false prophet would say something that didn’t come to pass and he was a false prophet. And so what the true prophets did as part of their function was predict certain future events that God had revealed to them in an inspired fashion. But to limit the idea of prophet as the one who tells about the future is of course incorrect.
In Exodus 4:15 and 16, which I mentioned earlier, and in Exodus 6:28–7:2, we see Aaron here called the prophet. And it’d be good to look at those scriptures for just a couple of minutes to get a little broader idea and a more accurate idea of what the prophet in the old covenant was.
Exodus 4:15 and 16 says, and you remember here that Moses was complaining because he didn’t think he was very good at talking. He said, “I’m not very good at talking. I don’t want to talk to Pharaoh. I don’t have very good mannerisms in my speech. I have uncircumcised lips.” And God’s response is he gives him Aaron and he says, “Aaron’s going to come out to meet you.” And in verse 15 of Chapter 4 of Exodus:
“And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth, and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what he shall do. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people, and he shall be even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.”
So God is telling Moses here that Aaron will be his mouthpiece, as it were. And then in Exodus 6:28:
“Came to pass in the day when the Lord spake unto Moses in the land of Egypt, that the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, I am the Lord. Speak thou unto Pharaoh, king of Egypt, all that I say unto thee.”
And Moses said before the Lord, “Behold, I am of uncircumcised lips. His lips were closed, as it were. They weren’t pure. They weren’t dedicated to God. And so, he couldn’t speak good, he thought. I man of uncircumcised lips, and how shall Pharaoh hearken unto me?”
And the Lord said unto Moses, “See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Thou shalt speak all that I command thee, and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh that he send the children of Israel out of his land.”
And so we see here that Aaron is called a prophet, not because Aaron can necessarily predict future events, although that would part of his ministry too in terms of Pharaoh. But Aaron is called a prophet because God puts his words in Moses’ mouth and Moses speaks them to Pharaoh or to Aaron and Aaron turns around and gives them to Pharaoh. So Aaron is the mouthpiece of Moses and he’s Moses’ prophet and Moses of course is God’s prophet because Moses takes direct revelation from God, speaks it to Aaron so that he can turn around and be a prophet to Pharaoh.
So we see from these verses that a prophet is one who speaks for God. He takes God’s words, God’s thoughts on a matter and tells other people those things. He’s God’s mouthpiece as it were, the conveyor of God’s truth.
And of course in the verses before us in verses 18 and 19, we see confirmation of that:
“I will raise them up a prophet from among thy brethren like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass that whoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
So God says here the same thing. I’m going to send prophets after Moses dies. And the prophet is the one who I’m going to tell the words to speak and he’ll turn around and convey them to whatever group of society I tell him to do or to whoever I tell him to speak it to.
So a prophet is somebody who speaks God’s words.
Ezekiel 3:4 gives us a good image of this. When Ezekiel is said to take the scroll that God gives him, he eats it. It’s sweet to his taste. The word of God is a sweet thing to us. And then he turns around and becomes God’s prophet by speaking those words unto the other people in the land.
So the prophet is the one who speaks God’s words. Notice here that this is a command word from God. In verse 19:
“It will come to pass that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. I will judge him, I will curse him as it were if he doesn’t listen to my words spoken through the prophet.”
God’s word is a command word. It always is. It was in the passage before us and it continues to be this day.
Psalm 82:4 is quoted by Jesus in John the 10th chapter verse 34. In John 10:34, Jesus calls Psalm 82 part of the law. He refers to the Psalms as the law. So here’s Jesus talking about a general book of the scripture, but he refers to it as law.
The fact that God’s scripture is a law word is taught throughout the scriptures. I remember when I first heard that expression used by Reverend Rushdoony, it seemed a little funny to me. I never heard such a thing and I was embarrassed to use it because it sounds like you’re just mimicking Rush. But that’s not what’s going on at all. Rushdoony is just using a contemporary word to express the idea that the prophet will speak God’s command word. That word commands us to do things and God will judge us as to whether or not we obey or disobey his command word.
The word of God is always a law to us. Now, it is not simply a set of instructions. It’s a revelation of the person of God. But that revelation of the person of God requires action on the part of the person that it’s being revealed to. The law word of God is an appropriate expression for the prophet’s words and for the books of the whole scriptures.
Hebrews 1:1 and 2 says that all the old testament—that in former times God spake through the mouth of prophets and now these days he speaks in the son, the final prophet. The point is that Hebrews 1:1 and 2 tells us that the whole old covenant is the result of prophets. Okay, men were inspired by God and they didn’t just have to make oral proclamation. The prophet could write God’s words for future use and the whole Old covenant is told to us—to be the old testament has told us in Hebrews 1 and 2—to be written by prophets.
So the idea of a prophet is somebody who speaks for God in a generalized sense. In a very specific sense rather, and generalized in the sense of it’s not simply predictive action. It’s speaking God’s command word to the rest of his creation.
Well, secondly, what are some of the marks or characteristics of these prophets? We’ll just run through these real briefly. You can study these out further if you’d like to.
But first of all, a prophet was a member of the covenant community. In verse 15 says that I’ll raise up a prophet. God says from the midst of thee of thy brethren. A prophet had to be part of the covenant community.
Secondly, the prophet spoke authoritatively in Jehovah’s name. We just looked at some of the scriptures about that. He spoke in Jehovah’s name. And when you speak in Jehovah’s name, “Thus sayeth the Lord,” you’re saying this is the law word of God, the command word, God’s required instructions for his people to follow. And so the prophet also spoke authoritatively as well as being a member of the covenant community.
Third, the prophet might, may very well have knowledge of future events and verse 22 tells us that of course as well as other scriptures. Prophets very frequently had knowledge of future events as one of their characteristics.
Fourth, miracles often accompanied the prophet and attesting to his being a prophet from God. Deuteronomy 13:1 is a good verse for that. As well as for instance, you have the example of Elijah and how he is demonstrated to be a prophet of God when the God before the prophets of Baal who were the false prophets, when God was the one who attested to Elijah’s prophetic work through consuming the wet wood, the water, the dirt, everything else there that Elijah had prepared for him. So Elijah was attested to be a prophet of God by miracles and that was frequently the case with other prophets.
So they had to be a member of the covenant community. They spoke in Jehovah’s name which is to say authoritatively. They had knowledge of future events typically. Miracles would accompany them.
And fifth, and this is quite important and is often overlooked, whatever this prophet spoke had to be in accord with previous prophecies. Deuteronomy the 13th chapter is an entire chapter devoted basically to this thought. Deuteronomy 13 says even if a guy predicts a future event and it comes to pass, but if in that prediction of that event and in the use of his prophecy, he tries to turn you away from Jehovah God, then he’s a false prophet.
Deuteronomy 13 says that whatever the prophet does, even if it’s attested by miracles, even if it’s attested by fulfillment of future events that he predicts, that prophet is not a true prophet unless his prophecy is consistent with what Jehovah God has told us or instructed us to do up to that point in time. It had to be consistent with the rest of scripture.
Now, of course, we see this very same thing in the New Testament in Galatians 1:8. We see where Paul says, if I or another or an angel from God even preach a different gospel than the gospel you’ve received, let him be accursed. This is, of course, the biggest reason or one of the biggest things point out to people of the Mormon persuasion that they have a book that contradicts other portions of scripture. So, we know that they’re false prophets and should be put to death accordingly.
The word of God says that whatever revelation comes from God has to be consistent with what came before. That has implications of course for many things we’ll say this morning, but it also has implications for the fact that we know that the scriptures before us ultimately led up to or prophesied the coming of Jesus Christ, the true prophet.
We know that because the scriptures specifically tell us that in Acts 3:22–26. Let’s just turn to that for a minute:
“Ye men of Israel, for Moses truly said unto the fathers, ‘A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me, him shall ye hear, in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that every soul which will not hear that prophet shall be destroyed from among the people. Yay, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.’
Then he says, ‘Ye are the children of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, and in thy seed shall all the kindred of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God having raised up his son Jesus sent him to bless you in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.’”
Here we have Peter in his—I believe it’s his second sermon—telling us specifically that God is going to raise up a prophet. And what he means by this is that God is going to raise up Jesus Christ to be your prophet. He is the ultimate fulfillment of all the prophets.
Now that’s interesting, of course, because if Jesus Christ’s message is going to be a prophetic message, it has to be consistent with the rest of scripture, doesn’t it? He can’t come along all of a sudden and say, “I’m a God of grace, replacing the God of law, the old covenant.” He can’t do that. He would have been a false prophet.
Jesus Christ came in accordance with the rest of the prophets, in accordance with all the teaching of the old covenant and the law as well. Now, that’s rather obvious, of course, because Jesus Christ is the word of God from all eternity. And the old covenant prophecies prophesied to him. Okay?
And if their content was reminding people of the law of God, and it was, then that was a prophecy that Jesus Christ would also turn the hearts of the people back to his law and on the basis of his law back to the children, back to a correct understanding of his law word in every area of life. To posit Jesus Christ is coming and somehow making a radical break from the old covenant is to in essence accuse him of being a false prophet.
Now, Jesus Christ was the ultimate fulfillment of the succession of prophets prophesied in Deuteronomy 18 or told about in Deuteronomy 18. But in the interim, of course, there were many other prophets under the old covenant dispensation. And we know that throughout the time of the death of Moses on through to about 400 BC there was a continuous succession of prophets. Prophets were as it were always in the land so to speak.
Now there may be actual gaps in terms of the chronology we know. But I think what God is getting at here in Deuteronomy 18 is that I won’t leave you without a prophet, without a prophetic voice to help you understand and apply and correct the abuses that you’ll have on the basis of applying these five books of the law that I’ve given you. I’ll always leave you with this voice.
And so there was a steady succession of prophets up to the close of the old covenant, prophets in about the age of about 400 BC with Malachi. And then we have of course 400 years of silence as the world is waiting for the true final prophetic voice to come, who is the fulfillment of all the other prophets who had spoken prior to him with the coming of Jesus Christ.
Now, it’s interesting too in light of the fact that we’ve looked at these marks or characteristics of the prophets and then Acts—I won’t turn to it now, but in Acts 2:22—we’re told that again talking about Jesus being a prophet that was to be sent by God. Peter in his first sermon there says that Jesus of Nazareth was attested to you by signs and miracles. And of course we said that a prophet had to be one of the countrymen or the brothers of the people, had to be a member of the covenant community.
And so Peter says here was Jesus. He was a member of the covenant community or brother, a Nazarene. And he was attested to by signs and miracles, another mark of the prophet, he had attestations to his office, to his function by signs and miracles. And the context of Acts 2 of course is that what they see happening in the church is a fulfillment of the prophecies of Joel. And so in the very first sermon here of Peter, he says that not only does Jesus have these other characteristics of a prophet, but he is fulfilling the prophecies of Joel.
So he teaches them in the very first sermon that we have continuity between all the old covenant prophets that were to be found in the old covenant including the prophet Joel and the prophet to come, Jesus Christ. And the mark of course of the true prophet is building upon the authority of God’s word already delivered. And so Jesus was seen as in continuity with the old covenant people.
So God promised to raise up a prophet. He’d be a spokesman for him, to be his mouth as it were, to tell people the implications of his law on their lives. He had marks, the distinctions of that office. And then finally, that Deuteronomy 18 is finally fulfilled in Jesus Christ, although it also has other fulfillments in prophets throughout the ages leading up to the coming of Jesus Christ, the true prophet.
Why did God raise up these prophets? What was the necessity for them? And we’ve talked about this a little bit, but we’ll look at it a little bit more in detail. Now, one of the things we can look at is Acts 3 that we just read. After all, Acts 3 says this is the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18, the coming of Jesus Christ.
And God now is raising up Jesus to what end? Why did God institute this? And he tells us in verse 26:
“Unto you first God having raised up his son Jesus sent him to bless you to turn you away every one of you from his iniquities.”
So the scriptures tell us the purpose of the coming of the prophet Jesus Christ was to instruct the people in their iniquities that they might be blessed by turning away from them. And that’s the overall thrust of all the prophetic offices to convict the people as to their sins that they might be turned and that they might be blessed.
Now frequently the prophets were given the bad billing that they were prophets of doom and their whole point was to bring doom upon the people. But the whole point of their message was not one of doom. It was one of blessing, not cursing. They predicted God’s curses upon the people, but only if they continued in their iniquity and in their sin. They did that so that they might turn the people, not so that they might be seen as saying, “Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, we told you so.”
They did it to turn the people away from their sins. And Jesus Christ is said to come as the last final prophet, the fulfillment of all prophecies to turn away every one of you from his iniquities and thereby to bless you. That’s the overall purpose of the prophet.
Now the prophet is necessary because people are sinful. We have, as I said before, good establishment of civil government in the old covenant. We’ve seen the blessings that will shower forth upon the people in a representative form of government, a government actually whose blueprints were sketched out by God. And we’ve seen that blueprint also applies to church government. These are blessings from God, but people are sinful and they’re going to fall away from the word of God.
And so a prophet will be necessary to restore them. The obvious implication of the statement in Acts 3:26 is that people will be in iniquities when the prophet comes. And that was the point, I think, of the prophets of the old covenant as well. They were around to reinforce to the people the necessity of obeying God.
God’s law, having given them the first five books of the Bible and God’s instructions for holiness, his instructions in terms of the sacrificial system and the grace extended to the people through the coming Messiah, the coming covenant mediator, having given his people clear instructions on all these things, they needed reminding. They needed refinement as the people then went into the land and lived out history leading up to the coming of the great redemption of Jesus Christ.
So the prophets were as it were the teaching, the exposition of the law of Moses as it applied to the specific society that people would find themselves in. Their constant message was to turn to the law of God. Their point wasn’t to make new laws for the people. Their point wasn’t to create new revelation that was somehow different or would give them more information. Their point was to simply reinforce what had already been said to God and exposit it and explain it how it applied to the temporary situation the people found themselves in.
In Malachi 4:4, Malachi instructs the people to remember the law of Moses my servant even in statutes and testimonies.
Isaiah 8:19 and 20: “When they say consult the mediums and the wizards who whisper and mutter, should not a people consult their god? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living? To the law and to the testimony.” The prophecies, the prophesying of Isaiah was to instruct the people to not turn to the dead for instruction for the land of the living but rather to turn back to the law of the testimony, the laws they had already been given by God and was now being in an inspired fashion exposited for them in terms of their present use and situation.
The fact that the prophet was to be a blessing to the people of God and not a curse is also evident from the fact that Psalm 74:9 tells us specifically that when there are no prophets in the land, that’s a sign of a curse upon the land. So although the prophets may have been seen as uncomfortable men to be around, still their absence was a mark of the curse of God upon his land. He had given them over to their iniquity. Their iniquity wouldn’t cease. But the voice of God reminding them of that iniquity and the specific way in which it was being manifested in the family or in the church or in the civil government, that was being removed.
So the prophet was to apply the law of God in everything that they did. The function of the prophet was to develop and to apply God’s word to the history of the old covenant community and as a result of that to produce the old testament canon, the balance of it, to add to the inspired word of god and give us a written history as it were.
There were basically three things Calvin points out in his introduction to his commentary in the book of Isaiah that there are three areas in which we can think of the prophet’s message fitting into. The first was an exposition of the law specifically—this is the law of god. Here’s what it means. The second was an indication of God’s curses and blessings, the blessings that would come upon people who walked in obedience to that exposition of the law and the curses of God’s word upon those who would walk in disobedience.
And then third, the prophets talked about the grace to come in Jesus Christ, the coming of the covenant mediator. And although that was all three things, these three elements—the law, the blessings, and the cursings, and the grace of a covenant—although all three of those things are found in summary fashion in the first five books of the Bible, the prophet expounded on each of those things, infallibly inspired by God to do so under the old covenant administration.
He told the people in more detail what that law meant in terms of application to their civil situation or to the ecclesiastical rulers or to their family. He gave the people more detail the blessings and cursings of God’s law. Whereas the law of God might say—uh, Calvin puts it this way: whereas the old covenant would say, “Thy life shall hang as it were on a thread. Thou shalt tremble at the rustling of a leaf,” quoting from Leviticus and such like—on the other hand, the prophets would say, “God will arm the Assyrians against thee, but he will call for the Egyptians by a hiss. He will raise up the Chaldeans. Israel shall be carried into captivity. The kingdom of Israel shall be destroyed. The enemy shall lay waste Jerusalem and burn thy temple.”
So although the curses that the prophets would proclaim were found in summary fashion, they would give details. They would say specifically, “Here’s the nation that’s going to come and beat you up for not obeying God’s word.” Or, “Here’s the way you’re going to be carried off out of the land because you engaged in the same sort of superstitious beliefs that the people originally there engaged in. So, they were driven out and so now you’ll be driven out.”
And they give them specifics in terms of times, in terms of political entities that would come upon them, etc. Same thing’s true, of course, of the coming of the covenant mediator. The whole function of the ceremonial law given in the first five books of Moses was to demonstrate the graciousness of God’s covenant. And so the prophets also would speak to that and would expound upon that and enlarge as it were our body of inspired scripture to help us understand the grace we have in Jesus Christ and his purpose.
And that of course, one of their functions of the prophets then was for comfort—to comfort the people. They comfort the ones who were being obedient and yet were suffering, covenantal blessings because the balance of the nation was being disobedient. They would comfort them because of teaching them the grace of Jesus Christ, the covenant mediator.
So the point we’re trying to make here is that the foundation for what the prophets said to the people in the old covenant was laid with the first five books of Moses with the law. And they then expounded upon that and applied it to every situation. Prophecy was an exposition of that law and correcting the errors, mistakes, and the sins of the people and of the priests and of the civil government as well. It was an external corrective—is one way to think of it—to the civil, ecclesiastical, and family institutions that we’ve been talking about for the last two months.
Those institutions are profitable. They’re good. But they fall into disuse. They fall into being vehicles for sin when the external corrective of God’s word isn’t constantly coming upon them. The model of the reformed church was a reformed church always reforming. The church as the civil government and individual in the land as well fall off into error and they need the corrective word of the prophets in the old covenant, in the word of God today to bring them back to a position of righteousness before God.
The historian Sawer puts it this way: We hear in the prophets the voice of true patriots who standing upon a provision of the law of Moses spake the truth to the people, to the priest and to the kings. True patriots because if their word was heeded then the nation would prosper. And if their word wasn’t heeded, the word of God was not heeded among the people. Their nation would fall.
Milton in Paradise Regained says this:
“Their orators, though extol, thou then extolest, as those the top of eloquence, status indeed, and lovers of their country as may seem, but here into our prophets far beneath, as men divinely taught in better teaching the solid rules of civil government, in their majestic, unaffected style, than all the oratory of Greece and Rome, in them is plainest taught and easiest learned. What makes a nation happy and keeps it so? What ruins a kingdom and lays cities flat.”
So the prophet was an essential element of the old covenant government of the state and the ecclesiastical system as well and of course the family. It was an essential requirement of the outside corrective voice of God’s word placed upon those various institutions. That was the purpose of the prophet and that continues to be the purpose of the prophet Jesus Christ as he speaks through his vehicles today.
What does all this mean to us today? What this means to us, the significance in terms of our study of government is that we’ve talked about the fact that God has given us these great institutions. But now we must see that God also requires the outside voice, the corrective voice to all these institutions as well for them to function properly under God. So here we have one more part of the government of God’s people both in family, church, and state.
This country is in obvious need of prophets. If you’ve gone to the grocery store in the last couple of days and you stand like I did yesterday and standing there in line, you look at all the various magazines that are up, all of them are extolling the life of Liberace. What a great American hero he was. Now, here’s a man who was a profligate, who was a homosexual, who died as a result of God’s curse upon people that live in such a way, coming from the hands of God’s disease upon those people, AIDS.
And yet the country turns their back on the warnings of God and continues to extol such men as being paragons of what we want in our American society. This land is in dire straits. This land, although it had been founded upon constitutional provisions inherent in the law of Moses, needs the outside corrective of the prophets of God to speak to that civil magistrate and to correct them.
In Isaiah 1 is an example of the way this would work. Isaiah 1 talks about the princes becoming needs and one of the ways that they’ve corrupted the system of government is by debasing their silver. He says your silver has become mixed with dross and your wine has become water. Gary North has done an excellent exposition of that passage and shows the result of inflation is a result of a debasement of currency, silver becoming mixed with dross, and as a result of inflation you have product devaluation, wine being mixed with water.
Now I think that the specific use of that term in Isaiah 1 refers to the idolatry of the people and being adulterous. In other words, in taking the system that God had given them and encou and mixing in base elements of the system of the people around them. But a specific application is certainly the debasement of their currency. And this nation today has done that to a great extent and needs the prophetic voice of Isaiah or of modern day preachers to tell them that monetary inflation based upon the debasement of currency is a sin, a sin to be repented of, and it will destroy the foundations of the society if it’s left unchecked.
This country needs to hear that their public schools are sin. To take money from people at the point of the gun in essence to pay for the education of other children is a sin. And this country needs to hear that from the prophetic voice of his church.
I was real pleased this week to read a presentation that Denny’s going to make to a group this week or next week. I’m not sure when it is. They’re going to be hearing from a man who wants to clean up the public schools. And we’re not necessarily maligning his motives, but the point is that people need to hear the prophetic voice of God’s church. The public schools are in themselves government schools and hence an abomination to the true government that God expects us to conduct in our families. To compel people to go to government run schools becomes the schools then become a product of politicization of the society.
Specific example: we’ve been talking about child abuse. Yesterday in the mail, I got the new set of legislation from Attorney General Frohnmayer’s office that he wants to inculcate into the statute law of the state of Oregon. He’s introduced these bills. Probably many of them will pass. One of the specific things he wants to do is to have child abuse classes now in every public school in Oregon to instruct every student every year as to what child abuse is and how they have the right not to be abused and how to report people that have abused them.
They’re going to teach your children that they’re being abused if their parent applies corporal punishment consistently to them. They’re going to teach them all the things that we’ve talked about in terms of the child abuse definition. The state will now be required to instruct those to the children.
We already have lots of instances in this state where children turn in their own fathers or their parents for child abuse because they don’t like them because they want a greater degree of autonomy or they want to operate under their own authority. We haven’t seen anything yet. When they institute that in the public school system required of all students, you’re going to see a tremendous avalanche of parents being taken with their children taken away because of being abused.
After they instruct these children in all these various methods of child abuse after the conclusion of the class sessions, they’re going to have private counseling sessions with each student so that they can tell the teacher in private if they’ve been abused. I mean, this is a terrible thing that they’re proposing. It’s an abomination. It’s a direct attack on the family structure that God has required of us and the civil magistrate should hear that it’s a violation of God’s law for which you will suffer the damnation of God if you continue in it.
Abortion. The state needs to hear that abortion is murder and that people who commit abortions, participate in them are murderers and should be put to death. The state needs to hear that from a prophetic voice today.
I could go on and on. By the way, in this child abuse legislation, he also calls for the suspension of the evidence rules against hearsay in child abuse cases. So now a person could be convicted of child abuse on the basis of hearsay and not direct testimony of the child anymore.
Additionally, another proposed part of the child abuse legislation is that the confessional privileges of clergy and of lawyers be done away with in terms of child abuse where there’s reason to suspect the child has been damaged somehow or abused somehow. Clergy or lawyer confidentiality be thrown out the window if the state has its way.
Now, these are tremendous assaults on the very foundation of our society, the family, and they will wreak havoc in this land. And today the country needs, in spite of the good civil institutions we had, it needs a prophetic voice to tell it: stop. Thus sayeth the Lord, that is wrong. Continue in that sin and error and you will suffer the judgment of God upon you.
People need to be saying today that AIDS is a judgment of God upon this country, not just for homosexuality, but for all sinful sexual sins that people engage themselves in. Now, we can’t say that if an individual gets AIDS that’s necessarily a judgment on that individual, but we can say that disease normatively from the scriptures is a judgment of God upon specific action. When we have disease kept to a specific promiscuous sexual activity on the part of people, we can say that disease is God’s curse upon people that engage in that type of sin and it needs to be said. It’s not just that we can say it, that it’s correct. God commands us to warn the people who are engaging in these practices.
Well, who are the prophets today? As Jesus Christ has come and completed the prophetic office, so we don’t have old covenant prophets anymore. Who are the prophets?
I think that one element of the prophetic voice of the world today is the church, the ministers of the church. Thomas Watson in his great book, The Body of Divinity, an exposition of the Westminster Confession of Faith—or catechism rather—talks about the church’s ministry. He quotes from Ephesians 4:11 and Hebrews 12:25 and he says this:
Christ the point he’s making is that Christ uses means. Christ is still the prophet of God, but he uses the means of his people today to instruct the people in the word of God. Christ is said to speak to us from heaven now by his ministers as the king speaks by his ambassador. Such as wean themselves from the breast of ordinances—and by ordinances he means the means in terms of the church officers—who wean themselves from the breast of ordinances seldom thrive. Either they grow light in the head or lame in their feet.
The word preached is Christ’s voice in the mouth of the minister. And those that refuse to hear Christ speaking in the ministry, Christ will refuse to hear speaking on their deathbed. Strong words.
It’s important to recognize that Christ speaks through means. Christ tells us specifically that the keys of the kingdom have been handed over to the officers of the church. The church institutionally has the keys of the kingdom to open and to close. And Christ tells us in other chapters of the gospel, in other portions of the gospel that the Pharisees shut up the kingdom of God. They locked the kingdom of God. And how? By replacing God’s law with their traditions, by not being true to their prophetic voice, their necessity of teaching the word of God and thus opening the kingdom to the people of the nation and the community they were in.
They shut the kingdom by replacing God’s tradition—God’s law—with traditions of men. And churches today are closing the kingdom of God when they deny the applicability of God’s law and the requirements of God’s law upon people.
The church institutionally has a prophetic ministry to the world. They are to open the kingdom of God. They are to make open that kingdom through the use of the prophecies of Jesus Christ which is the teaching of his word which he has given us in scripture.
The churches today that mix as it were the teaching of God’s word as it relates to civil government or to the church or to families, if they mix that word with either warmed over liberalism or hot-blooded conservatism that’s founded without a Christian base, when they mix those things into their preaching of the word, they have become false prophets. They’ve taken the word of God and adulterated it with the traditions of man and so closed up the kingdom of God and denied their prophetic ministry.
Ezekiel 13 tells us what God will do to such men. The same thing was true, of course, of the covenant community in the old covenant. God said to Ezekiel:
“Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy and say to those who prophesy from their own inspiration, listen to the word of the Lord. Thus sayeth the Lord, because you have spoken falsehood and seen a lie. Therefore, behold, I am against you. So my hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will have no place in the council of my people, nor will they be written down in the register of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel, that you may know that I am the Lord your God. It is definitely because they have misled my people by saying peace when there is no peace.
And when anyone builds a wall, behold, they plastered over with whitewash. And so tell those who plastered over with whitewash that it will fall. A flooding rain will come upon you. King James calls that untempered mortar is what they use to build the house of God as it were. They mix it with other elements outside from the written word of God in the new covenant sense and so become false prophets and bring God’s curse upon them.”
The church that sounds an unclear sound when it comes to abortion or to the importance of the family or to the sins of the public school system or to the sins of the current child abuse legislation being proposed in the state of Oregon—the church that sounds an unclear sound and says there might be some reasons we should do this even though the word of God says it’s wrong—that church has become a false prophet.
And from Deuteronomy 18 we read the punishment for the false prophet is death and exclusion from the kingdom of God.
Those churches that sound no trumpet at all on these issues, of course, are even more condemned by scripture. We talk often of the fact that in Ezekiel 33rd chapter, we have the watchman being required to warn the people when terror or when raiders are coming upon them. And we talk about that in terms of evangelism. That’s certainly a proper application of that verse of scripture to warn people of their sin and their guilt before God and to turn them to Jesus Christ.
But specifically, the primary application of that verse is that Ezekiel is the watchman over the house of Israel. And that if Ezekiel doesn’t sound forth the warning to his people, if he doesn’t exercise the function of the prophet by telling them God’s judgment, the application of the law to their particular situation and God’s resultant curses and blessings upon them, if he refuses to do that, then the blood of their heads will be required from his head. Ezekiel will be damned by God.
And so, church today that refuses to address contemporary issues and refuses to use his prophetic voice and denouncing the sins of the state suffers the same condemnation that Ezekiel would have suffered. The blood, the sin, the guilt will be required of their hand and they’ll be cut off from the people of God again.
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COMMUNION HOMILY
No communion homily recorded.
Q&A SESSION
Q1
Questioner: Earlier you mentioned T. Robert Ingram and his prophetic ministry within the Episcopalian denomination. Can you clarify the role of prophetic ministry within the institutional church?
Pastor Tuuri: The church has prophetic ministry. That ministry should instruct the civil government. It should instruct denominations as well. Of course, when a denomination becomes apostate, and when a church with prophetic, God-fearing men continue to occupy the pulpit of that denomination, they should rail against that denomination. They should be the prophets addressing the ecclesiastical rulers as well.
Remember, Ezekiel and Isaiah didn’t just instruct the civil magistrate. They instructed the ecclesiastical rulers as well and the individual people as well. And so today, for instance, T. Robert Ingram performed that function in the Episcopalian denomination. He would continue to rail against the sins of that denomination from the pulpit of one of their churches. He was obeying the prophetic ministry given to him by God.
And as a result, he was clear in terms of the guilt of that congregation. He was clear of that guilt himself. He was doing his job. And so prophecy and the prophetic office has a place in the organizational structure of the church as well. The church has to be reminded that when they fall in terms of applying God’s word in everything that they do.
However, having said that, it would be to diminish the finished work of Jesus Christ and the importance of that work to restrict the prophetic office to simply the church and the clergy within the church and the people that occupy the pulpit.
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Q2
Questioner: Is the prophetic office limited to the clergy, or does it extend to the laity as well?
Pastor Tuuri: You remember that when we talked about the seventy elders—the officers that God appointed—what happened to them? God took the spirit that was upon Moses and put it upon the seventy and they prophesied. And there were two men that weren’t with the group that were prophesying back in the camp and they said, “Well, should we stop him?” And Moses says, “Well, heavens no. Would that all of God’s people would be prophets.”
Well, what do we see happening in the book of Acts, the first century church? We see the spirit of God come upon the people that were hearing the preaching of the apostles of Jesus Christ. And they have the spirit of God come upon them the way that the seventy did before. And they begin speaking in tongues. And as we read earlier in Acts 2, Peter says, “This is the fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel: ‘Your young men shall prophesy.’” All the people that hear the preaching of God’s word were given the sign gift of tongues.
And one of the manifestations of that was teaching us that God’s gift of prophecy had come upon all members of the church.
Now, so what we’re saying here is that the prophetic voice today is not simply heard from the pulpit, although that’s important. The prophetic voice is heard in the individual members of the congregation as well as from the pulpit. You’ve all been given the gift of the Holy Spirit in full measure. You now are true prophets under God.
Now, that shouldn’t surprise us either. We’ve talked in this church about Abraham Kuyper’s great work in terms of prophet, priest, and king, and how Adam was created in the image of God. Adam was created as a prophet of God to understand everything in terms of God’s word, to teach that word to his family. Adam was created as a priest before God to consecrate all things to God and to his use. Adam was created as a king under God, in God’s image again, to exercise dominion over the whole earth under God.
But Adam turned away in all those things. He rejected the prophetic ministry he had by instead exchanging the truth for a lie. He loved the lie and turned to the lie of Satan. And that now became his source of knowledge. And that’s when he began to speak to other people. Adam rejected his prophetic ministry and became a false prophet.
Adam rejected the idea of consecrating all things to God as a priest of God and instead consecrated all things to Satan and for his use. He volitionally, now in terms of his will, began to obey Satan and not God and as a result was now a false priest as well.
Adam rejected dominion under Jesus Christ and instead turned over the world to the prince of this age, Satan, to exercise his reign in it and so Adam became a false king.
Adam fell from being a true prophet, priest, and king and became a false prophet, a false priest, and a false king under Satan now instead of under God.
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Q3
Questioner: How does Christ restore us to our original calling?
Pastor Tuuri: And we know that Jesus Christ came to restore us to the original calling that God gave us as image bearers of him—to be true prophets understanding all things that we know on the basis of God’s word and God’s revelation of himself; to be true priests consecrating all things to God; to be true kings exercising dominion under Jesus Christ, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
And that, by the way, is why the church today—the true church—will exercise the prophetic ministry, won’t it? It has to preach God’s word or it’s not a true church of Jesus Christ. It has to be a true priest. It has to have correct administration of the sacraments or it’s not a true church of Jesus Christ. And it has to have discipline. It has to have a kingly function, a medicinal function as well. If it doesn’t, it’s not a true church of Jesus Christ.
The church as an institution exercises those offices, but the people as individuals exercise that office as well. And that’s what Jesus Christ has recaptured for us today. Jesus Christ has given us the ability as individual members of this congregation to interpret the world in terms of the law-word of God and to apply that law of God to the development of the world, to every aspect that we see in the world.
To apply God’s knowledge based upon his word to every aspect of our calling and of the creation of the world. We’re to do that. And as a result, we are true prophets of God. And we’re called to exercise prophetic voice against the abuses of the state or of the church or of individuals in their family as well who supplant the truth of God.
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Q4
Questioner: What happens when the church fails to acknowledge God’s law as the basis for understanding creation?
Pastor Tuuri: When the church today doesn’t understand or refuses to acknowledge that God and his law is the basis for understanding of everything in creation and instead believes there’s some sort of what Van Til calls “brute factuality” out there on the basis of which all things exist apart from the foreordained will of God, the providence and decree of God—the church has not recaptured its role of being a true prophet and continues to be a false prophet.
We have to understand that every aspect of reality is a result of God’s decree and providence and should be interpreted in light of God’s revelation of himself in the scriptures. That’s our calling as prophets under God.
The Westminster Shorter Catechism declares that Christ executed the office of a prophet in revealing to us by his word and spirit the will of God for our salvation.
Van Til, writing on this, says that Jesus Christ is our wisdom—not only in the sense that he tells us how to get to heaven, but he is our wisdom too in teaching us true knowledge about everything concerning which we should have knowledge. We have the requirement, as Van Til says, to have the scriptures as the standard of our thinking and not our thinking the standard of scripture.
When we do that, when we understand our very thought process in light of the revealed word of God and conform it to it, we’re prophets of Jesus Christ. We are his prophetic voice in the world. We have understood knowledge from our King of Kings and from our great prophet. And we turn around and expound that knowledge to one another in word.
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Q5
Questioner: What tools have we been given to become true prophets?
Pastor Tuuri: We have been guilty—infallible in word—by our creator. We have been given the great prophet Jesus Christ who came and who restored us to being true prophets under him. We’ve been given the Holy Spirit that we might understand the word that Jesus Christ reveals to us in the scripture.
We have been given all the tools essential to becoming true prophets once more and to understanding the world in light of God’s scripture and God’s scripture alone. We’re God’s mouthpiece now in everything that we do.
And of course, specifically in application, the men of this church should hear now that they are God’s mouthpiece in their families. They are to instruct their families as true prophets under God, expounding the word of God to their family and teaching them from that word.
We have a requirement to do that. We have a requirement to take that word of God into every area that we are involved with, of course. But we must understand that word of God and being true prophets and understanding knowledge on the basis of God’s scripture is essential to the correct government of our family.
If we teach our children from some other perspective than a godly perspective, if we mix that godly perspective with other ideologies and other ways of thinking and other philosophies and worldviews, we have now tempered the word. We have mixed the word of God with dross, as it were, and we become false prophets to our very household itself.
We have an obligation as men to understand this word of God, to conform our thoughts to it, to have the mind of Jesus Christ, and then to teach our children on the basis of his word. And when we do that, we’re fulfilling the office of prophet in our household.
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Q6
Questioner: How do the prophetic offices apply to family, church, and civil government?
Pastor Tuuri: We have that same obligation in the churches. We have the obligation to be a prophetic voice to the churches that stray from God’s word. And we have the obligation of prophetic voice to the civil government as well. These things are essential.
The office of the prophet, external to an institutionalized form of government that we’ve been talking about and yet a part of it, is essential to the proper governing of the family. The office of the prophet and the function of the prophet is essential to the proper functioning of the church as a government.
The office of the prophet speaking God’s word on the basis of what we know to be true from the scriptures and the power of the Holy Spirit is essential to the proper functioning of a civil government. We will not have proper family, church, or civil government apart from the use of the prophetic knowledge that God has given us in Jesus Christ and exercising that function of prophet in everything that we do.
It is essential for our well-being. It’s essential for our very life.
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Q7
Questioner: What is our obligation as prophets in light of the coming of Jesus Christ?
Pastor Tuuri: If we’ve all been made prophets now because of the coming of Jesus Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit and fulfillment of the prophecies of Joel, if that’s true, then we now have the same obligation as Ezekiel. We have the obligation to be true prophets, to warn our children when they stray, to teach them the word of God, to teach them the ordinances of God, to teach them the requirements of God’s word, to teach them the blessings and cursings of that word, and to teach them the grace of the covenant mediator, Jesus Christ, which is the central message of all these things that we’ve spoken to.
We have obligation to do that. And failure to do that—either mixing it with other thought systems or by not doing it at all—will bring God’s judgment upon us as men and as women of this congregation because we failed to exercise the office of prophet and we become false prophets and turn from God’s blessing to God’s cursing.
That’s our requirement today: to fulfill the function of the prophet.
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Q8
Questioner: Were the Old Testament prophets directly inspired by God in a way that differs from us today?
Questioner: They were actually inspired by God, of course. The Old Testament prophets were given a word directly by God. Numbers 11 came from—
Pastor Tuuri: Yes, that’s right. But that was only for a temporary time, of course. But that’s right.
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Q9
Questioner: Regarding the state’s authority in education—if the state doesn’t have biblical mandate for public education, should we obey that law?
Pastor Tuuri: That’s a big question, though, isn’t it? That’s one of the central questions: do you have to obey the civil magistrate? And I like the point I made when we started this whole thing three months ago. I think that Romans 12 teaches us specifically: we must obey the civil magistrate until he causes us to disobey a law of God. That’s the difference.
In other words, if the civil magistrate says tomorrow you can only drive thirty-five miles per hour on this street, we may or may not think that’s a good biblical use of government. But even if it’s not, even if there is no biblical authority for him to do so, I think that the individual person is still responsible under God to obey that law until such a time as that law would cause them to disobey the law of God.
For instance, if the civil magistrate said you can’t preach anymore—we know what the scriptures tell us: to witness about Jesus Christ to our friends, to our neighbors. And so we can’t obey the civil government in that law.
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Q10
Questioner: Can you clarify the authority structure in Romans 12?
Pastor Tuuri: I think that the position that I’m taking—what we talked about in terms of Romans 12—is that God has instituted a whole series of authorities in the world. And when you challenge that authority apart from when you challenge it normatively, that’s wrong and incorrect. It’s a denial of God’s government.
If however, you obey a civil magistrate who commands you to do something which is going to cause you to violate a law of God, you have no longer kept the authority structure in place. You’ve actually broken it by disobeying the law of God. Does that make sense?
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Q11
Questioner: If the state does something without biblical mandate, should we disobey it?
Questioner: Well, what I said was that if the state requires anything of us, we have to obey it until it would cause us to disobey a law of God. So if that’s correct—well, then if a state, let’s say—I don’t understand your point about education. The state doesn’t have public education. I think I said, I might be wrong. I think Gary North said that education—public education, not education per se, but public education managed by the state—they don’t have the right or constitutional grounds for that, right? I would agree with that. But the question is: do you have to obey or not? And then if they say your children have to go to public education, homeschool is out, church school is out—do you obey that?
Pastor Tuuri: No, because then they’ve caused you to violate a central command of God, which is to teach your children.
But see, the point I was making was that until they do that, I think normally you have—now there’s obviously—well, okay. Now the other thing is you’d probably have to, you know, the thing you’ve got to start thinking through too, if we’re going to really approach this prophetically, is what specific commands of God are they violating?
And I think that for instance with public schools, you know, one, there’s certainly the area of jurisdiction which is absolutely appropriate for critique. I think that’s exactly why once the government begins to impose public school systems, you end up with what I said earlier (and I didn’t expound upon it, but a political education—educational content determined by politics. And that’s—there’s no way around it.
Secondly, I think the compulsion of people for taxes is a direct violation of the commandment against theft. And so there’s lots of ways that it’s wrong, a bad deal, right? So far we shouldn’t obey it. We shouldn’t pass it just passive information.
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Q12
Questioner: Should we actively resist these unjust laws?
Questioner: Yeah, that’s right. We should actively resist and get good laws and hopefully get all authorities to be God.
Pastor Tuuri: Absolutely right. That’s very good. Maybe that’s what you’re getting at, Monty, is that the church institutionally as well as the individual members of the congregation have a prophetic responsibility to tell the state: “This is not a proper area of jurisdiction for you.” And that’s—I think that’s real important.
And I think that, you know, it doesn’t make you a very popular person. Of course. I was thinking of that as I was thinking through this week—that the prophets, you know, were—I think that Christian Reconstruction has been raised up as a prophetic movement in this country to call people back to the standard of God’s word. Whether or not this country is going to turn and avoid judgment, I don’t know. But the implication of that is we’re going to end up just like the prophets did. They weren’t very popular people to be around.
And you probably all have had experiences—most of you probably had experiences where among your family or other people that you know, and you begin to come into a room or enter discussion on a particular issue, people get very uncomfortable being around you. Well, you got to remember, and you don’t want to go overboard at this and be real self-righteous, but it is true that the prophets were hard people to be around because they kept applying the word of God to whatever was going on.
And to the extent that we fulfill that today, in a nation that is disobeying God’s laws, we’re going to be uncomfortable people to be around. But we shouldn’t feel bad about that. We should feel good about that.
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Q13
Questioner: Is it legitimate for the state to manage education, and what’s the solution?
Questioner: That’s why I like Denny’s paper and Tony’s too—is the editorial in the Vancouver paper. It people are beginning to raise the whole issue: is this a legitimate function or not? It’s going to be plagued with problems. It’s ridiculous to try to reform it. We’ve got to get rid of the public school system. And I think it’d be neat to be able to have an elected official from one representative district in Oregon who would understand that position, for instance, and begin to tell that to the representatives in the state government as well. I think it needs to be addressed.
Pastor Tuuri: Tony and I—a little bit—I’m not all familiar with the law regarding schools.
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Q14
Questioner: In our state, we’re allowed to homeschool, but we have to go to the superintendent and request permission. They give it to you. The state requires notification. My trouble is, until at least I get it straight in my own mind, it seems to me that the best position is rather than go out there and announce my name, address, social security number and so on with their permanent files from here into eternity—if I’m wrong, I’d rather not have them have my name until I’m real sure about what course of action to take.
I think the prudent thing for at least as I’m thinking through it is to do nothing as far as compliance goes unless I’m falling for it. And then the next step would be, “Oops, what do I do?”
Pastor Tuuri: You know, if you’re not sure of your position, that may be okay. But I would, you know, I’d highly recommend that if a person was going to take an action that’s contrary to the civil government, that they diligently search out the solution biblically. And then if you understand the biblical principles involved, then really the practical considerations are really unimportant. It may sound a little weird, but when you temper obedience to a civil law with the idea of what seems reasonable and right to me—if the scriptures say to act in obedience, then you’ve done just what we said earlier. You’ve taken your silver and mixed it with dross.
The critical thing as you’re thinking through it is: is it right or wrong?
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Q15
Questioner: But the question at this point in time—because the government can legislate something that seems to be not directly contrary to scripture—should I go along with it?
Pastor Tuuri: My question is whether or not they are in fact in violation or not. Primarily, you have to ask two questions. One is: would the law cause me to break a command of God? If it would, then your choice is clear. You have to disobey it. You don’t have an option, by the way. You actually have to disobey, of course.
But if it doesn’t, it seems to me then that you have to obey. Now, you, there may be cause for disagreement at that point. But, you know, I think Romans 12 is pretty strong. I think that the history, the witness of the church—the Reformed church, from the time of Calvin, for instance—is an example of that principle and has been insistent that that’s the case.
It’s like a lot of other issues that several people have addressed outside of the church where they come up with new and novel ways of doing things. If you’re going to hold that position, you better have some real good scriptural reasons for it. If the historic church as well has taken a position contrary to that issue, so much, at least for my own part, I’m not disagreeing with Romans 12.
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Q16
Questioner: You might find them not in fact breaking a command of God?
Questioner: Yeah. Yeah. You know, some groups say it’s not only jurisdictional issues, but they take it up to the issue of the value and need of Christ, the value and need of the state, right? And then in any kind of plea for consent to your own children, does it imply consent to the origin of the state over you?
Pastor Tuuri: Yes. It’s tricky for—well, I didn’t, you know—until we passed the law here, and I didn’t comply because the prior law said you had to go and request permission from a local school superintendent. And you know, I’m not saying my position is necessarily correct, but my understanding was the scriptures would not allow me to leave the decision over whether or not to educate my children in the hand of a bureaucrat when he had commanded me—he commanded me to teach my children, rather. And so for me to say, “You tell me whether or not I can,” was wrong.
Now, whether that notification is equal to request is an issue that each of us has to sort through. I don’t think it is. I think a notification is to simply inform you, to state, “This is what I’m doing. If you don’t like it, too bad. If you like it, fine. But this is what I’m doing.”
You know, it’s kind of like Daniel. When he was commanded not to pray, he didn’t close his drapes so that people wouldn’t see him praying. The civil government was made aware of the fact that he was praying. He didn’t try to hide it—is what I’m saying.
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Q17
Questioner: Do you think Daniel always had his drapes open in the first place, or did he throw them open once he heard the command?
Pastor Tuuri: I mean, either way, it’s okay, though, right?
Questioner: Either way, sure. But my point is, it seems prudent to me that before I fly the flag of “here I am,” before you open the drapes—
Pastor Tuuri: Well, no. No. You know, I would assume that Daniel had his drapes open anyway.
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Q18
Questioner: So it seems like you have to decide whether you are here or not?
Pastor Tuuri: Yeah, sure. Right. Because they can get you from that point.
Questioner: Yeah. We were looking at a house to rent yesterday and there was a creek and there was a real shaky wooden bridge going over it. It said, “Use at your own risk,” you know. So I had to, you know, I had to say, “Is this bridge safe or not?” And I tested it out quite a bit first, then I went across it finally. And I suppose it’s the same thing. If you’re not sure if God is saying to cross that bridge or not, and if going across that bridge is an imminent danger of falling into the creek below, and you’re not sure God is saying, “Cross it,” well, yeah, I’d advise some caution.
Pastor Tuuri: But, you know, I guess my point is that Daniel didn’t try to hide that activity from the civil governor. And it seems that a lot of people in our state anyway are saying that because of fear of some change in the law, for instance, they’re going to hide from the state. They’re going to close the drapes now. And I’m saying that, you know, there was an excellent article in Mary Pride’s book, “The Way Home,” where she talks about a minister who had the same sort of situation.
He was concerned—I don’t remember the exact situation. It was reprinted in a recent homeschoolers newsletter in Oregon—but he was, some people told him that he was crazy to publicly acknowledge the fact that he was now going to be preaching, once the laws of preaching had been removed, because they could come upon him again and they’d know he was a preacher and they’d come after him.
And he said, “Well, that may be, but I’ve got to trust God in this and I’ve got to obey God and obey the government. I’m going to do it.” He did it. He suffered persecution, but eventually was effective for the gospel once again. And she uses that as an example, I think, of what we’ve been trying to say: that if the scriptures say to obey the government unless it causes us to disobey a command of God, and if you’re sure—and this is one of your questions—that in obeying you wouldn’t be breaking a command of God, then considerations as to your safety or into the creek or whatever are gone.
You can’t worry about that anymore. You got to let God worry about that for you.
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Q19
Questioner: But those are the questions you got to answer?
Questioner: Howard, one thing I was thinking about was that if you do take a real low profile on these things, you’re probably going to be less likely to be involved in public legislation to overturn it. I mean, if your worldview suddenly becomes low profile—but you know, they made me think of the Israelites. How they were taxed on the poll tax, so everyone was paying the same amount. Now, if they increased the tax, that affected everybody and everybody would be involved in that and especially the poor—they’d get very upset and try to fight that.
Well, then they changed taxes to the progressive or regressive—whatever it is—where the more you make, the more you pay, that type of thing. So they can give an increase and people don’t squawk as much because they work on the “don’t rock the boat” principle.
Well, you know, if you’re not going to comply with the law and it’s an unjust law (let’s say we have in Oregon), then I don’t know if you’re going to try to reconstruct the law either, you know what I mean?
Pastor Tuuri: Yeah. You’d be afraid to get involved politically as well. That’s true. Well, you’ve got Stacy Hutchins, for instance, in the child abuse arena. Now, the reason that Stacy is so special is that most people accused of child abuse policy like she was, they’re afraid to go public with it because they know that CPS still exercises a great deal of authority over them.
The point is, we need people like Stacy. We need people who have suffered under these things to come out, to be open about it, and to work against it. And I think that we need that for one reason: to rally other people who are not quite so willing, you know, to come forward like that. Stacy will be seen as—she’ll be with us. You know, we had twenty calls the next couple of days from people who wanted to come forward and to testify in Salem. Those people probably wouldn’t have done it until they saw somebody kind of leading the way for them.
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Q20
Questioner: But one important military strategy is: number one, given the capabilities that you have and the supplies and support and so on that you have, because you are limited, you therefore have to pick your battles. You can’t fight on every front or you get, lose on all fronts.
I think though that’s true. And so the way I look at it, as an individual, I can think of probably a dozen fronts beginning right now that are all legitimate fronts that I can find, right? And the thing is, you have to be awful careful because all of them are legitimate in the sense that there’s a disobeying of command in some way or another. But before you spread yourself, you just got to realize the ones you need to focus on.
Pastor Tuuri: Yes, well, that’s why, you know, with the issues we’ve been involved with for the last couple of years—first was homeschool and now it’s child abuse. Why me personally? The reason why is because of each of those situations—existing law—I had to conscientiously object to it. I had to say, “No, this law would violate the law of God if I do what this law tells me to do.” So I didn’t really pick those battles. God kind of picked them for me, saying, “Dennis, you’re in disobedience to the civil magistrate here. This is a serious matter. It’s not just a matter of the civil magistrate making things tough on you or taxing you too much and making it hard. You are in a position where you can’t obey him, and you better try to change that law.”
And that’s if that’s the position you’re in. And I think we all have that obligation. Maybe I’m wrong, but to me it seems like one way to determine that sense of priorities is to begin with those particular commandments of the civil magistrate that you cannot in good conscience obey because of—of course, the civil magistrate is moving in greater and greater areas, and we have to at least lay down the line where it’s a clear issue of the supremacy of the state over the supremacy of God’s word. And in those cases, it’s real clear.
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Q21
Questioner: Bob, I don’t know if you read a paper two days ago. I don’t read that column, but I somehow read it—Ann Landers. Did anybody read the little article about the girl who wrote in and said, “You know, tell please and tell everybody that it’s the family that disciplines the children, not the government”? Of course, in her great mighty wisdom, she decides to say, “Well, I disagree. I think that your parents were wrong and corporal punishment was bad.”
Pastor Tuuri: Yes.
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Q22
Questioner: One other thing about homeschooling—one other caution is that we may have different ways of interpreting which commandments or which laws are going to cause us to disobey God’s command. But I think that where we find well, one place where we find common ground in the church is saying: “Here’s what God’s best is in that area for the civil magistrate,” and we all should be having that prophetic ministry individually and appropriately to the state to say, “That’s wrong.”
And it can be—you know, when you are in a position where you’re trying to make laws tenable or not so uncomfortable as to cause you to disobey them, you can tend to lose that prophetic edge as well. That’s the danger on the other side.
And so I think that what we all need to stress, or what we all can at least agree on, is that we should instruct the civil magistrate, we should instruct our society, you know, as to the viability or soundness of the government addressing a specific area of life such as education or child abuse or spanking or whatever. Does that make sense?
Pastor Tuuri: Any other questions or comments? I know.
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